EricJ

I mean the program was designed to help JTACs on the ground (there simply wasn't enough to go around) but yeah it's inter-service stuff that pretty much goes on. The JTACs I started with in my deployment liked me and I liked them too. But their replacements were a little sketch too there was that. Anyways as said it works out in the end and that's that.

From what I can tell it's type 1. The Air Force doesn't have a high opinion of JFOs so they restrict us to Type 2. One of my JFOs got handed a Type 1 clearance due to weather so he managed to pull it off quite well in a demanding engagement, so it can be done. We were trained on Type 1 for school so we knew what to do in case we did but as said, we're restricted mainly to Type 2, regardless of the practicality of the situation, and in use it doesn't seem to make a difference anyways when talking to the pilot and so on. We can't do Type 3 at all (which is fine, never bothered me) so there's that. Pretty much what you say is pretty much true

Okay, when I deployed to Afghanistan I deployed as a JFO. In Air Force terms, it means that I can do Type 2 controls, meaning a JTAC has to give final authority in the attack. It seems annoying but if you know what you're doing it works out pretty well. It's what the Air Force and US Army agreed to, so that's way above my pay grade. ONLY in special cases could I do a Type 1, which was a JTAC doing in the video. As for targeting you gotta see the target with something, like binoculars and the like, and sometimes seeing the plane too. The pilot confirmed he was heading south so you can hunker down and pray, and so on. And the pilot may see the target. Afghanistan is hellacious territory, so some sort of target ID is sometimes out of the window from the pilot's perspective. Matter of fact the unit we were replacing came to NTC and gave us a brief on what to expect, and one slide had a soldier standing there 100 meters away in plain sight. Some people could see them, some people couldn't (I couldn't see him initially), and take that from thousands of feet up the pilot would have to take it on faith that the JTAC/JFO/Observer could see the target and so on. As for the callsign, mine was ROCK9N back then, so I would have to say that each time that I was talking to the pilot, and the pilot talking to me. Army callsigns have a number signifying their position in the callsign. I doubt that it was an Army JFO on the radio, and so on. If it was an Army JFO there would be profound amounts of Over too in the transmissions.

Yah pretty much I didn't catch the FRND marker, so I missed that. The callsign isn't a typical Army callsign, so it's Air Force. Nightowl isn't a common callsign in the Army, so it wouldn't be a Type 2 control. That I can tell is a Type 1, from the callsign. It seems pretty obvious to me. And besides he called Cleared Hot so it was a JTAC, and nobody else. I mean in extreme situations I could do a Type 1 control no problem, but I wouldn't have the authority as an Army JFO on a clear day, unless they allowed me to. So yeah got it. I mean this isn't a laser bomb drop so I can see where you're going with this. I just cringe at saying "my Friends are to the north" and I'm saying "come from south to north". I mean okay got it was safely done and nobody friendly got killed. I'm just saying I wouldn't take the chance myself with that call that's all.

Look, it started out as "I don't think it's safe" and all of a sudden you want to argue with me about it. Why I don't know but that's the forums here. Anyway I wouldn't make that call and wouldn't suggest that to my commander. It's just not right. I mean I cringe when I replay that video in my head and just glad nobody friendly got killed. I mean it's a cool topic and it's starting to go nowhere fast. So believe what you believe and that's it.

Um yeah. The GAU-8 isn't a precise weapon, so there's that, but a JDAM is. It's funny I was trained by JTACs who taught against this, so whatever. I doubt the steerpoint is the friendly location (we don't know really). The JTAC doesn't specify distance so they could be anywhere, which he said was to the north of the target, ergo it's unsafe. Plus you can change the run in headings, etc on the fly as the tactical situation dictates, so you're not bound by the initial 9-Line. And he probably did get a medal, but knowing the Air Force he probably would have got it for surviving the deployment, if he did. I mean you seriously think with the 11 month tour of duty I spent as a JFO in-country that I don't understand weapon safety? I mean DCS is pretty realistic, but it's still a game, and not what happened there. Oh yeah Yurgon, the guy on the ground is probably and more likely a JTAC given his callsign. I had AXEMAN as mine when I was in-country and NIGHTOWL sounds more JTAC-ish than an Army callsign, which would have been obvious to some. So it was a Type 1 control

No because the JTAC said that they were okay after the first gun run or whatever, so they were safe and got lucky, I just wouldn't make that kind of call regardless. But I think the JTAC was running a best case scenario given what they were going through. I bet he was praying things went right. Granted I've never been in a situation like that I can't tell him he didn't make a call, just one that I wouldn't make, and have the luxury of saying that's wrong, given my experience in Afghanistan. And yeah it's a recipe for disaster. Its only luck that they didn't hit any friendlies, I just wouldn't make that call if I was in his situation. I mean it would be his investigation not mine too, so I'm glad it worked out for him.

No dude, you don't point ordnance at your own friendly troops. I mean a steerpoint doesn't stop ordnance from flying into the face of the soldiers and whoever may be hunkering down from the enemy fire. I mean you can reference any cue you want, but it doesn't stop a bullet from ricocheting in your face. God forbid he drop a bomb and it missed. Again the two HAWGs got lucky without hitting friendlies

Yeah luckily nothing happened to them, but I'd smoke the <profanity> out of any of my FOs if he allowed that back during my deployment. I can understand being under fire and all, but realistically that wasn't a safe call.

Yeah it gave me the willies too. I mean stuff like that may cause a friendly fire incident from ricochets, but I would tell HAWG something different, like NE SW, not South to North.

I agree, a 12 page discussion isn't going to convince them otherwise. I think NineLine should close this topic.

They don't operate without them, so why remove them?

AFAIK the DSMS page is the only way to show your stores.

I see what you mean, that is weird.

Ahh gotcha, thanks.