Fufunka

Duh, so we did learn some trivia about living conditions in Portugal and Russia but almost nothing about the public display of BlackShark, no pictures, videos, any more details.. Strange.. :cry: In comparison there were tons of material from the last expo was it a year or two ago?

Thanks! Awsome cockpit pictures. I'm just wondering how does the real/last gen of Ka- look like, because they certainly used glass panel and more electronics than in those early "prototypes" as pictured.. Well, I guess that's a state secret so nobody knows.. ;)

That's right but one thing is to bring for examplke a new digital camera under the customs radar so to speak. And another thing is to try it with 42" sized panel :megalol:

Uh, you guys in the US have surely toys almost for free. This Full HD 42" monitor goes for cca $1.3k. While that would be impossible to get for less than 1.5k EUR overhere..

Unfortunately you can't wrap it 100% exactly into this shape without some slight distortion. It could be manufactured that way though as a section/partial sphere but that would be only for one particular setup. But the best solution is obviously the Bourke method - to have it enabled in game engine as software warping, so every setup could be easily changed via parameters for individual pit/pj/screen setup. Lets hope one day the sim developers will acknowledge that it's more important to spend few hours on coding this immersive feature (again couldn't stress more that the code and workflow already exists!) than on fiddling forever some other perifferal issues.. Mod> this feature could be coded as a mod with some slight fps loss but with today hw performance (SoftTH example) perfectly feasible. You have to take the rendered output image from the video card and warp it according to input parameters and then send to output (second card or the same card in dual head mode). Some DirectX skilled coders to volunteer?

This is basically the passive system in a nutshell: #1,2,3 The first two pics show the jumbo cabin facing curved projection screen and the pj. The mylar sheet is curved and fixed in the frame. The third pic is the same concept but different simpit. #4 The last pic is from completely conceptual different setup, for our purposes here just focus on the cylindrical screen (disregard the top section). This is very smart "curtain hack" how to have cylindrical projection from two curved tubes and sheet => very diy and low budget as well as space compact/disassemble ready for non permanent setups.. More links here: http://forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?p=305821&postcount=30 http://www.a340project.us/gallery10.htm The MSFS/mylar mirror sheet guys hang around this thread: http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120&sid=bc892fda7eec68ebf935fe5485b25b84 Very nice TripleH/3x pj style setup, the black out for the rest of the room makes a big difference! http://www.projectmagenta.com/dreamflight/news2007.html

Passive warping projection system> Pls. refer to the links in other threads, the MSFS guys used for their home jumbo cockpits one particular type of flexible mylar sheet mirror but I think you can use any general type used in furniture/home decoration/design which could be bended a bit. I think they mentioned on their forum the specific vendor for these mylar mirrors both in the US and EU. In terms of price that's just a few euros per the required small rectangular sheet. In terms of the actual setup/dimensions for this passive style - you can either have: - the crude MSFS method - warp it inside the frame by hand and screws as on those pictures of actual setup and tweak the shape accordingly to your projection setup dimensions (distance from the screen/pj etc.) and/or - calculate the whole setup beforehand in some simple *3D app., use the Bourke's drawings/examples how to proceed. That's how you get the most precise dimensions. So perhaps for permanent setup a particular more advanced shape of the mirror could be then sourced out in some company doing these spherical plastic mirrors to order. Ask optics/home/furniture decors/astro amateurs etc. they will guide you on the local market. Cylindrical projections 101: http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/projection/cylinder/ The whole immersive topic here: http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/%7Epbourke/projection/ -- *software for designing diy projectors (light paths) might be usefull for these calculations

Hi GGG87> I'm glad there is some interest in this immersive technology, please specify what you are after: For the passive warping system> one pj & mylar mirror there will be always some distortion because as you can see from the Bourke projection/setup examples, you can't twist the mirror all the way in 3D fashion all that much. But the MSFS people have relatively good results with the approach, the slight distortion is acceptable for the immersive factor and low/no price of the setup. For the active/software warping system> we need either a/ support directly from the game engine (ED still silent on this one) or b/ from the mod community like the author of SoftTH who is experimenting with some post rendering image warping techniques (i.e. the main video card renders the image be it classic widescreen or the high res triplehead surround and all those warping changes are applied after that, but not fps ideal) For plain TripleH2go/SoftTH> this mod could be combined with warping and/or edge blending mainly for simple yet very effective high FOV cylindrical projections. That's what we should be primarily after in my opinion because you don't need special screens for it, the needed software workflow and code is known etc. From the hw standpoint the only extra cost is the 3x pj setup but there are lot of chinese diy lcd pj nowadays. So you can have it for the price of one flat 40" TV.. For spherical/half sphere> the best approach is to start with cubic map projections, i.e. taking those different 4-6 views and producing one "fisheye" image. This image goes to one pj and mylar mirror sphere for example from some security camera system etc. Now this needs for good performance support directly from the game engine. And I doubt ED will offer it to us anytime soon. I've got the feeling this might be even restricted by the version they sell to the military. This last spherical approach is the most immersive one, but the dome construction, and software support make it probably the most distant solution at the moment for diy people and the ED engine.

In the meantime Ka-52 in EECH (mod) is already having the long wished for thingy - MFD/pseudoABRIS view export (early beta version) a crucial feature that BS probably won't have anyway be it release 2008.. On the other hand there is no high res widescreen/surround hack for TripleH2go in EECH which is one of the biggest problems and this obviously works fine in Lockon/BS (edit: chances are that these resolutions might be supported shortly).. (Pics from DickDastardly's setup) http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2136680&page=1&fpart=6

ggg87> You can have it right now like the MSFS guys, basically a "passive system" but with little bit of distortion. Just take one pj (widescreen preferably), sheet of mylar mirror, curved projection screen, adjust your FOV in the settings and you are all set. As far as I understand it the best approach from fps/video fidelity standpoint though is to make those warping/edge blending/and adjusting calculations or what have you directly in the game engine. That's like in the Unreal/Quake in fisheye/panorama versions or as the mil. grade simulators work. Now, these effects could be applied also afterwards similarly to the "SoftTH" approach, this is doable within the DirectX environment but it will eat a bit more cpu/gpu resources. For instance you can render in your main video card "flat" FOV 120 surround image 3840x1024 or bigger (5760x1200 with nvidia 8800 cards is now possible), blend the connecting edges, and spit out those three different views for each monitor/projector.. Now if you hook it up with 3x XVGA-WUXGA aligned projectors (could be diy) you will get seamless panorama image (flat) with this edge blending technique. For higher fidelity additional effect must be applied like warp the image mesh accordingly to user selectable mode or projection (cylindrical, spherical), dimensions of projection screen etc. The simplest and perhaps most likely to be first adopted solution: ordinary PC/gpu, one pj and mirror curved projection type of setup could be implemented by the devs in no time. But again there is little or no interest in those features, I wonder why? Everybody seems to be completely consumed by the tiny details and specs. of military hw while this immersion factor is being neglected.. Btw., all the major info about the workflow and code have been linked before..

Got some spare 8800GTX? Well, what about put them into some serious work - SoftTH in 5760x1200 85Hz (1920x1200 on each monitor) - performance rFactor is 4x AA and 16x AF at 28 FPS.. Actually the texture limit of 8800gtx in directx is cca 8100x8100pixels.. Pictures, details: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=334212#post334212 PS the Lockon/BS dev team should seriously look into the spherical, cylindrical projections as described on the previous page, the technology is here and frankly long overdue. We only need the little help on the code site (and most of the workflow and code is also known).. Even the simplest setup including one projector (could be diy style with long lamp life) and plastic curved mirror, plus mainstream PCI-E video card (8600/8800/1950) is within the budget of most of the simers and the immersion effect is like from NASA/mil grade spec simulators..

The new tripleH2go digital edition has got some bezel management to compensate for the distortion caused by lcd/monitor frame. Anybody knows whether the author of that software app. is planning to support similar feature? Benefits of Monitor Bezel Management: Real life simulation: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/gxm/products/th2go/digital/home.php

-Yes, I've posted some info about affordable immersive projections for sims a while ago: http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=7135&page=8&highlight=projection -And in other threads also posted about the *half/full dome - this option works best with software support, where you export the warped picture which could be cylindrical or composit of cubic projection/fishey. This is pretty easy supported by DirectX and OpenGL libraries, just few lines of code, but obviously no big game dev supports it at the moment since there is no "demand/market" for it. There were (hope still are downloadable) some ports for older versions of Unreal Tournament and Quake games with panorama and fishey capability though.. So if you have a little sheet of mylar mirror and pj give it a try.. (If you don't have a pj - you can use mylar mirror and cell phone/pda/gps with bright lcd for diy car HUD - that's another application of this technology - the curved image reflected from mylar decreases double vision/ghosts on the curved windshield in your car) http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=7135&page=7&highlight=bourke -- * from the hw side you need only cheap curved plastic mirror (mylar) and dlp or diy projector(s) = this could be pretty mainstream - no big budgets needed - but so far no interest from simmers in this area..

Great, thanks for posting. Lets hope that there will be some plans available for the Kamov pit from BlackShark too.. Btw. I don't understand why you are not using some advanced key emulator platform, perhaps something like IOCP/SIOC and keycards from opencockpits.com

Those linked sites are working again! :megalol::book:

Yes, someone just hacked their server, lets hope they will resume shortly.. :helpsmilie:

Tarochi and friends have logged some new milestones in their projects. Gauge Composer - Russian instruments: http://www.3rd-wing.net/index.php?showtopic=4402&st=90 LO-SIOC Editor v1.0-4 beta: http://www.3rd-wing.net/index.php?showforum=86 and much more.. for instance SIOC keyboard emulator for other sims: http://www.3rd-wing.net/index.php?showtopic=4654 cartography perhaps some start for ABRIS panel export? http://www.3rd-wing.net/index.php?showtopic=4120 -- Off topic: General xml/swf graphs and gauges for your dynamic web pages: http://www.maani.us/gauge/index.php

zorlac> Yes, there might be some small performance hit from the data export but the client side could be run over network. As I understand it (I can be wrong) the new worflow is as follows: Lockon/LUA server -> export.lua -> SIOC client -> Gauge Composer application the previous version worked: Lockon/LUA server -> export.lua -> LO-IOCP (translator) -> IOCP/SIOC client -> Gauge Composer or any other application driven from Lockon

Zorlac> The problem is there are not that many options how to proceed with exporting Shkval and ABRIS views. The "easiest approach" just grabbing it from the memory and send as .png or .jpg that's how it has been done in some Falcon and EECH simulators and it's kind of impractical because it costs a lot of resources. The more elegant approach used by MSFS, FlightGear and others is server-client, basically running a second install of the same sim over network on another less powerfull "zombie" PC which is in sync with the main rig. That zombie PC is tweaked to display only the selected panels or views for that matter.. FlightGear even has all this network sync mumbo jumbo code for multidisplay documented on their website so it could be learned a lot from it if not copied entirely by the ED. I think they could make a BS client which would be stripped of every input functions and only able to render the exact views or panels what the server tells him to do.. There might be also other approaches, I'm not sure about simmeters but they most probably fall into the first category in terms how they go after for instance the HUD display. But I doubt you can recreate the complexity of ABRIS only from the LUA data and in the Shkval it's flatout impossible because that's output from the core of the graphics engine.. Probably some better coders might have deeper insight of the issues and offer some viable strategy how to do it. But I'm almost confident that some sort of server-client solution would be necessary.

ruggbutt> are you talking about the Shkval TV/ABRIS view exports enabled through TouchBuddy? Thanks

Well, I think it's more question about time than money, this is all opensource and diy based projects. If you dedicate it just few minutes per day - you might have a Ka-50 too after a couple of years and your wify perhaps won't even notice it..

Some kind of the following rudimentary schematics for the cockpit of Ka-50 might be included in the electronic manual for the BlackShark project, this would be a great value for the community at very little additional resources dedicated by the ED team:

I don't have the links at hand know, go to to the folder - simpits and then SU-25/27? I think.. Actually one of those guys said he is scraping it into Ka-50 instead.. :D mmt.. http://www.checksix-forums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=286 (you can use some online translator like babelfish) For specifics go to search and type "sioc" or "opencockpits" and the threads will pop up.. There is some talk in english about it at the Opencockpits forum as well.. -- For the OpenCockpits I/O cards overview go here: http://opencockpits.com/modules.php?name=nuevasfotos&numero=9999999999 http://opencockpits.com/modules.php?name=Content2&pa=showpage&pid=29 In fact the whole Ka-50 cockpit could be recreated incl. all the warning lights, buttons, switches, nav/ammo and c/f displays and what have you. The only thing still missing is export of Shkval TV and ABRIS which ED devs have said nothing firm till this time, so lets hope it will be possible.. HUD export is possible thanks to simmeters guys already..

In addition to simmeters another glasspanel utility, called Gauge Composer is now available for the Lockon series as an opensource project. The gauges are driven by a script language, so no extensive coding knowledge is necessary for the major functions. The LO-IOCP/SIOC protocol of the Opencockpits modular platform has been already utilized in pit building for Lockon, you can seen some first cockpits at the french checksix Lockon forum which have cockpit warning lights, switches and buttons controlled by this system.. You can get the plans or kits of I/O cards in various stage of completion from them too.. http://opencockpits.com/modules.php?name=Content2&pa=showpage&pid=68&page=1 http://www.iocpserver.net/en/download.iocp :pilotfly: Now, even better stuff, they can communicate directly between export.lua of Lockon and the SIOC protocol of Opencockpits, woot.. http://opencockpits.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forums&file=viewtopic&topic=1571&forum=10

I'd would be very interested as many others here in the Shkval TV and ABRIS export from BlackShark over LAN without this feature it's kind of pointless to build a pit for it anyway.. Too bad ED devs still decline to comment on these requests, which are IMHO more important for the long term success of the sim than other issues.. The MSFS has got this ability for years as other sims..