Bwaze

If there is a mechanical “deadzone” or free play due to oil damper I would check if everything is tightened as it should be - collar on the damper sometimes arrives very loose. If that doesn’t help you can check the oil damper movement by detaching it and moving it by hand. If it has a “deadzone” you should contact Winwing, they should send you a new one.

I haven't tried it yet, but I suppose you can set the deadzone in the SimApp Pro - if you uncheck the "Default" setting, you can enter your own value, even the decimal numbers. But the higher resistance settings on the damper can mean rudder pedals won't perfectly recenter - at higher settings mine don't recenter even with default deadzone, I imagine they are more for a "helicopter mode" - without the spring, without return to center. Relevant setting, I think it hasn't changed: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/291199-winwing-orion-hotas-review/?do=findComment&comment=4929823

Is there a “free play” in the damper due to some wiggle room in attachment - either at end collars or in the collar around the damper cylinder? Is there “free play” in damper if you detach it and try to move it by hand? Mine doesn’t have any free play (but it has some “stiction”). These cheap dampers are copies of motorcycle steering dampers that originally cost $300, not $15, so people usually say “you get what you pay for” if you complain about lack of smoothness, free play, longevity problems…

Just received my pedals! Winwing Skywalker (Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals)! My unboxing, assembly (without damper for now), measuring force needed for full yaw and brake deflection, comparison to to Baur BRD-MS3 rudder pedals (2017) - since many people commented relatively high force needed for full deflection and brake press. Interesting points: Manual states 8.5 kg force for full yaw deflection, I measured about 11.4 kg! Manual states 7.5 kg force for full brake deflection, I measured about 6.3 kg. For comparison, Baur BRD-MS3 rudder pedals (2017) only need 6.2 kg for full yaw deflection, about half of Winwing Skywalker / Orion rudder's 11.4 kg! For maximum brake deflection I measured about 2.7 kg, less than half of Winwing Skywalker / Orion rudder's 6.3 kg!

First batches have Skywalker branding, next ones will have Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals, since Winwing changed the name to avoid copyright problems. I imagine name in Windows could change with new firmware? We will see.

Allowing sleep of USB ports has nothing to do with lights staying on when computer is powered down. Some motherboards have options in BIOS for behaviour of USB devices with LED lights. My Gigabyte x570 Aorus Elite for instance has it under: bios/settings/Miscellaneous LED's in Sleep, Hibernation & Soft Off states You can also try to enable ErP: ErP is the short form of “Energy-related Products.” In BIOS, ErP is a special feature. It prevents the computer from draining energy by shutting down all the energy-related devices. But it is bugged for a long time now, no matter what setting it is, my mouse and other attached devices with lights remain powered on on my computer.

Prices seem great. But stuff like screens, displays really need flawless communication with DCS, and right now many users have problems with simple light status communication on their panels and throttle bases, or the software actually hogs too much resources to be usable. I'd wait for the reviews. User reviews, not Youtuber praises, paid by the free review samples.

I had to remove the WSS switch on the Hornet grip twice - when I bought the grip it was getting stuck in two positions, forward and back. Unfortunately I found out I had no Thrustmaster warranty since I bought the stick through the Ebay site (even though it was a new stick, and sale was made by a large store, not individual). But the store agreed to cover the cost of the new button from Thrustmaster support. The other option was returning the stick, but I would be loosing shipping both ways. I also had a hard time getting the switch out. I tried to push the hidden clip with some random things but it was just too inaccessible. So I used brute force, but I damaged the old (already malfunctioning) switch in the process. I installed the new WSS (without thoroughly checking it first), but it was getting stuck too, this time just in one direction. Thrustmaster did send me another one for free after I made necessary videos, and this time I prepared myself and created a "WSS switch extraction tool" - a small cheap screwdriver that I bent 90 degrees and also bent the tip a bit. It was a bit too thick so I couldn't quite reach the clip with ease, but after a couple of tries i hit near enough so it released and the switch fell out. You see the dents on the switch in the image - they look deep but they are more or less scratches. So if I would make it again I'd grind the first centimetre or two to a thinner shape. Thrustmaster could have easily included such a tool with their switches which have inaccessible clips, it would cost them peanuts. And it's a bit offensive that they don't even acknowledge the difficulty of removing the switches in their PDF guide and technical support communication.

I have ordered finger lift kit for my first version of Orion throttle / F18 grips. I now have some reservations, before I have even gotten it. 1. The detent mechanism between the throttle levers is glued with double sided tape onto the base in version for Orion V1. No, really, it's in the PDF installation guide in Winwing store. And it seems you can't install F-16 throttle grip with it in place - which is a detail Winwing should communicate to buyers of their "modular" system. 2. You get an adjustable detent system with the finger lift kit, but the removal of old detent system from first version of Orion throttle base was apparently seen as too complicated, so you will have two detent pairs - old push through detents and new detents that are push through in afterburner and strictly finger lift at idle / off. Of course that is messy - it's a mess if they are not aligned (where am I, at old or new afterburner detent?), and by aligning them you loose the whole reason for buying adjustable detents, and also force of overcoming the detent will ad up! 3. Old throttle grip mounting plates were solid aluminium. And praised for offering a really solid experience - compared to for instance bendable Thrustmaster Warthog throttle grips. New ones with finger lift mechanism are plastic. And of course not as solid any more. ... Finger Lift KIT for Orion(1st Gen) is only $50. But adding shipping (fortunately only $19), adding 22% of VAT to both, and some extra customs fees it will be closer to $100...

Here are several screengrabs from Grim Reapers' video that show F-18 finger lift assembly and operation. You can see the probable reason why they came up with the mechanism that they use, swivelling paddles instead of just lifting them - look at the image of throttle in afterburner position - there isn't space for normal finger lifts that just lift a bit:

Grim Reapers: Product Review: Winwing ORION HOTAS Throttle Base V2 Nice overview of the changes from 1st gen base to V2. There's also a short bit about finger lifts on F-18 throttle grips. They look like they work far differently than I imagine, instead of just lifting they swivel upwards - might be the only way they could make them fit under the grips in the afterburner position, since it comes so far forward. We see that new Orion base does not have detents in throttle levers - which is logical, F-16EX throttle has it's own detent system, F-18 throttle grips now have their own finger lift system, and Black Shark collective grip has short movement that doesn't reach the detent positions. So for using Finger Lift KIT for Orion (1st Gen) I imagine we will have to disassemble the 1st Gen Orion throttle base and remove the detent captive ball stops? That's quite a lot of disassembly. Also, will the lower part of the F-18 finger lift detents that is installed on a base be in a way of F-16EX throttle grip? The part that goes between the throttle handles and is installed on the base, and is screwed with two long screws that go through the base. It wasn't a quick swap system before (with fiddly setup of rails), and it looks like more things to uninstall / reinstall, if it has to be removed.

It certainly looks like current F-18 Grip for Winwing Orion, but with fingerlifts and perhaps adjustable detents (arc in the middle)? I wonder if this will be an add-on for current customers or new version of Winwing Orion throttle base? Image focuses just on the grip, fingerlifts and detent mechanism, so I hope it will be an add-on. For comparison, stock Orion base with F-18 grip:

Mistery solved! There is a setting for deadzone in SimApp Pro - if you click on the axis it shows "Dead zone setting" below! It was set to Default. But I have now unchecked the "Default" option and set it to "0", and this is it - now it has no deadzone whatsoever! It also now shows that stick doesn't centre perfectly, of course - perfect centre would be 32767, it centres at about 32550 (0.5% out) in jaw and 32850 (0.25% out) in pitch - most probably due to stick extension. It also accepts decimal numbers, even 0.2% now gives me no dead zone, but still perfectly centred stick. So it is user configurable.

Yeah, Winwing shop page actually states, in a broken English: Follow features are cancel compare to Super Libra Joystick base: Center Stop Device(CSD) for ZERO DEAD ZONE. As a feature Orion doesn't have - so Super Libra Joystick base should be the one with zero dead zone, and Orion has one. I have asked on HOTAS Discord channel, which several Winwing representatives attend, and I got this advice: I have tried it, and even reversed the procedure, but the deadzone remained the same. Of course deadzone is much more pronounced since I have Winwing extension installed, which adds about 115 mm. About "tiny deadzone being huuuuge" in certain situations - perhaps in normal conditions, but Winwing Orion base has a large throw - 20 degrees in each direction, so there is about 280 mm of travel from one side to the other. And the portion with the deadzone is also the portion with lowest spring resistance, so it's easier to move it a bit more in the centre - quite the opposite than in Warthog stick with it's hard detent. And deadzone isn't something real sticks are completely without - for instance breakout forces in aircraft with moveable sticks, deadzone in F-16 side controler - it disregards any force lower than 1.75 lbs - that's about the force most home joysticks need for full deflection, not just to break out of deadzone!

I have searched and I haven't found any axis customization options in SimApp Pro software, apart from those that are offered (setting afterburner ratio for throttle axis, axis movement speed for virtual axis assigned to buttons)... There is nothing in calibration portion or settings that would affect this. Deadzone isn't big - less than 1 degree of movement in any direction, on my extended Winwing Orion I'd estimate deadzone size is about 5 x 5 mm. It shows as 1 degree on my graphs due to rounding. This is looking at raw DicectX axis response, in SimApp Pro or in any other joystick testing software, so it's not DCS related (where you can set deadzone and curves, but this only affects response in game). Small deadzone makes sense in Orion which has very soft feeling centre - due to single cam mechanism there is no hard bump or any strong centring force that would insure that stick would fall exactly in centre. This weak centring force is most probably also the reason why stick extension isn't recommended for Orion - although stick centres easily by itself if you let it go, you can very easily give small input by mistake because forces are weak near the centre. Super Libra has different mechanism, with stronger centring force. But I don't have Super Libra base to check for deadzone. I haven't seen anyone else mentioning the deadzone in Winwing Orion or in Super Libra, but this does not surprise me, since most of the reviews are now non technical Youtube praises that are mostly made so the creator will get another product for free.