Scarecrow84

To repeat yet again, I can fly it just fine. I made a mission for the L version with 50 ground units - APCs, infantry, etc. I can do the entire mission in one helo. In fact, the better I get at flying it, the more "off" it seems. It's not "just us". There was never this conversation regarding the Huey FM that I know of...why would that be, if we just like making stuff up? As for the stick movement, DocWilly admitted the animated stick movement in the sim is way understated relative to what we see in the IRL videos. How that maps on to the FM, who knows. But really, I give up here. The videos Holbeach posted speak for themselves.

Thanks for the interview, Doc, very interesting info regarding VRS, SAS and fenestron behavior. 6:40 You are seeing stick movement anything like this module, really? Are we seeing the same video? We were ALL bending over backwards to tell Polychop how much confidence we had in them, etc. at first. Even that was after years of waiting, but now we are 8 months and 50 bucks past that point. This is their first module. It's up to them to prove themselves to us, frankly. You know they know they have us on a leash with zero competition, right?

Hello, I'm very interested in this setup. 2 questions: Is there an estimated release date for the throttle? Would the Gunfighter and/or throttle be compatible with Saitek pedals and /or throttle? Thanks

:megalol: I'm reminded of this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n14MBAd3R8

Thanks for posting that article, DocWilly. A few points I found interesting: "In normal operation, he cautioned, the controls are extremely light and responsive" "Even without SAS, it is more stable than the average light helicopter" But... "It's controls are so light and sensitive that if feels more like a jet fighter than a helicopter" The controls in this sim are not "light and sensitive", they are laggy. A helicopter can be relatively stable and still sensitive on the controls. BTW, I have a little time in an R22...Not much, but I paid lots of attention :)

I take this to mean the SAS holds the stick in place where it is put? Kind of like an automatic trimmer? That's what it sounds like to me, and makes sense from what I've seen in the real life videos. This is different from how the module works. In the sim, the attitude itself holds while the stick moves back to center. Big difference. From this it sounds like the most realistic setup would be a stick that is non-centering and set up with a gimbal that stays put...? Maybe like that new VKB stick that allows axis tightening... Anyway, this take on the SAS does not account for what we are seeing in the sim...forward full speed flight with a centered cyclic. Did you watch the video I posted, starting at 6:30? There is a generous range of movement forward for straight and level flight. You can see on the real life video I posted the forward stick movement at high speed is not "very slight". It's plain as day. I unchecked mine and didn't notice any difference. Also, I'm pretty sure the SAS is always on as far as the FM is concerned...not sure though.

That was the entire point of my original post. I asked our supposed real life gazelle pilot that question multiple times and he ignored it. I then found the answer in that youtube video (original post) that clearly shows the cyclic pushed forward inches from center for forward, level high speed flight. That is completely different from how the module works. We keep "beating a dead horse" because some keep making excuses for the developers and acting like the flight model is up to DCS standards. It's not.

Looks like the FFB box is actually under Miscellaneous. I had it checked before, unchecked it, and don't notice any difference. I don't have a FFB stick. I have found the Gaz can be flown straight and level at a constant speed with either slight forward cyclic or centered, depending on how you adjust collective. This tendency for attitude to stay where you put it with a centered cyclic is more pronounced in turns and quick stops. So, I think the point stands, honestly. And I still don't get why some people get bent out of shape over these flight dynamics discussions. We just want the FM to match the awesome model, systems, and weapons.

Yes, I re tested this after my original post and you are correct. Thanks for the in depth response. It does require some slight forward cyclic for sustained straight and level flight. I don't mean to cloud up the FM issue further...Might try to delete the original post. I would be interested in your overall takes on the FM though...both David and TheM. Others with more in depth knowledge than me have made better points regarding the FM.

I posed a question earlier to any IRL Gazelle pilots regarding the odd cyclic behavior of the sim. I realized early on that in order to control attitude this module requires a very different kind of cyclic input from other helicopters I am aware of. Basically, the cyclic stays centered and is sort of "bumped" in the direction you want to decrease pitch/tilt the aircraft, and then quickly returned to center. For example, in straight and level flight, I found I actually had to just move the cyclic forward initially and then return it to the center position - while adjusting collective. Most helicopters, of course, require the cyclic to stay in a forward position during straight and level flight (Hence the need for trim in the Huey, etc. I never found I even needed trim in this aircraft as the cyclic would always return to center regardless of attitude.) I found this very odd, and asked if this was how the actual aircraft works due to the the SAS or just its own aerodynamic quirks. No answer ever came, so I poured over some of the Gazelle videos on youtube and found my answer. Verdict: the cyclic behaves like a typical helicopter in this regard, as can be seen starting about 6:30 in the below video. The aircraft is in straight and level flight, and in order to accelerate the pilot moves the cyclic forward and keeps it there while adding collective. I saw another video that shows the same cyclic behavior for the roll axis in a steep turn - i.e. the cyclic stayed pushed to the side during the entire maneuver and didnt snap back to center during it. I understand we are in a waiting state for FM updates, but for some reason some keep insisting the FM is fine the way it is.

My weapons hints for the Huey wont show either, it's been that way for a while...Is there a fix for this?

Yeah, I was concerned the re-fueling infrastructure type items might be a problem. That's really good to hear that all aircraft will work.

Maybe a dumb question, but will non WW2 aircraft be able to fly in the Normandy Map? It looks great from the Spitfire video...

No one has suggested changing the FM because it's "too hard"...Overall, most have actually concluded it's too stable, among other issues. I can fly it really well myself, but am hoping to see some changes to the FM soon . Hopefully we will have some kind of "roadmap" info this week, so we can adjust our expectations.

My experience matches NixNB. The original FM seemed very sensitive to inputs, or "twitchy". The current FM feels too laggy and loose, for a small light heli, to me. I actually kind of liked the original FM better, so I use curves of (-10) on pitch and roll to make it feel tighter. I appreciate Polychop responding to these criticisms and I'm sure they will get everything ironed out soon.

What do you mean by speed rendering? If the sim is running at 30-60 fps, do the objects not move by and change perspective as they should? I think I understand what you mean by things seeming slow...but, I have always attributed this to less detail in the simulator environment (grass, ground texture, etc.) to give the impression of movement. The FM should absolutely be improved...It's ridiculous to say a good flight model is impossible. Maybe floaty and rail-ey are the best you can expect in FSX, but we know what DCS is capable of. I also remember Polychop mentioning using a third party software system for their FM. I wonder if this has much to do with the limitations we are hoping to see improved...

There is a new helicopter-based simulator being developed by Fred Naar, of Helicopter Total Realism (physics package for FSX) fame. It looks promising to me, but we are told not to judge by the early screenshots. He can apparently use some help on the project, so let him know if you are interested. https://www.helisimmer.com/interview/fred-naar-developer-airland/

I hate to be "that guy", but are there near term plans to fix the problem of ground units (infantry, vehicles) moving inside buildings and other static objects? I thought for sure I could find a thread on the subject, but no luck. It would vastly improve combat gameplay in these awesome new and updated maps. Is this something we can look forward to in 2.5? Thank you

I agree that the FM should be the top priority. I have full confidence you guys can get it to the same level as the Huey. For the record, I actually liked some aspects of the original, highly sensitive FM better than the current iteration. I actually use -10% curves on cyclic to make it feel tighter now. I always found it strange how the cyclic re-centers after each input with the gazelle. I barely use trim at all, unlike the Huey. I'm not sure if this is reflective of IRL Gazelle behavior or not, but it's very different than the Huey. I have to agree with the "floaty" and "railly" descriptions. Not that those are actual words, but they get the idea across...

Blue Window Tint in SA342L Really looking forward to the L-version and other Gazelle updates in 2.0. I can't find any mention of the dark blue, almost opaque tint in the right seat top window of the L-version. This is the opening you look through in steep right hand turns. The visibility of the Gazelle, especially without the copilot visible, is one of the best aspects of it IMO. This blue tint shows up on the exterior of other gazelles as well. Thanks for a great module.

Dark Blue Window Tint. Really looking forward to the L-version and other Gazelle updates in 2.0. I can't find any mention of the dark blue, almost opaque tint in the right seat top window of the L-version. This is the opening you look through in steep right hand turns. The visibility of the Gazelle, especially without the copilot visible, is one of the best aspects of it IMO. This blue tint shows up on the exterior of other gazelles as well. Thanks for a great module.