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  1. I agree wholeheartedly. I have spent money on a few EA projects that have flopped and I was out the money, but I NEVER went whining for that money back. I knew EXACTLY what I was getting into and it just didn't pan out. ALL EA modules in ED's store are clearly listed as such. I never bought the Hawk, mainly because I was told it was less than good and not worth the money even on sale. I do, however, have the Hornet, Tomcat, Harrier and Viggen and have gotten way more than my money's worth on them, with the exception of the Tomcat, though I have no doubts I will on that, too. I know what early access entails and will never demand a refund if some unforeseen thing like this happens. And definitely wouldn't try to get anything out of a party who has ZERO ownership in it.
  2. I didn't ignore your points. I pointed out how you were wrong. And my opinion is based on the 4 years of college I had for business management. Have you had the schooling? It's not my opinion, it is fairly basic knowledge for that type of schooling. I was just trying to impart that knowledge on people who seem to have a somewhat skewed view on what is going on here. Unless there are warranties involved, no one is entitled to anything back. 3 months for digital content is a fairly reasonable period of time for a refund, even though it is not required. And, as has been stated before, no amount of arguing it is going to change the fact that no one is entitled to anything back. To put it another way, when you buy early access, you are buying the product AS IS in its current state with no guarantees that it will ever be finished. If you did sign an agreement stating you WILL receive the finished product, then you have a legitimate argument. But you must have that paperwork handy if you intend on fighting it.
  3. Lol, sorry. That was my fault. I was late to the party.
  4. Indeed. The thing that gets me is that the entire concept of early access and kickstarters follows the exact same perimeters as when you go to investors to start a business. You don't have the funds to complete the project on your own, so you look for help. In the business world this usually does equate to money back, but in the gaming world, it equates to being able to test the game/module well before it is released and then continue to enjoy that game/module for years to come when it is finished. Not sure how that is so hard to comprehend.
  5. Look, I can't show you how to use Google. I suggest taking business management courses and when you get to investments, tell your instructor your definition of investment. I will agree, most point to profit, but I will reiterate, it DOES NOT have to be for financial profit. Personal profit in this case would be years of flight time with a finished module. Pretty sure that would be worth more than what you put into it. That is what early access is.
  6. Right, but as times evolve, so do definitions. Even if you want to go that route, you still are putting money down on a product that is unfinished and may never be finished, and are knowingly taking that risk. Maybe you get it, maybe you don't. But you are still responsible for your decision, not ED. That is the nature of early access. Always has been even before Hawk was released. And there are no laws saying they have to pay. Sure, some countries are enacting laws to protect consumers from digital product scams, but let's say a lawsuit is filed in the UK against ED, a Russian company, they can't enforce it unless Russia agrees to it. And news flash for everyone who buys modules here, it specifically states, before you confirm your purchase, that due to the nature of digital content you can not get a refund. If you don't read that part, then again, it is on you. It has been on EVERY SINGLE ONE of my purchases. The fact that they are giving some refunds speaks VOLUMES to their business model.
  7. I will repost the definition highlighting it. the action or process of investing money for PROFIT or MATERIAL RESULT. Keyword "or".
  8. You conveniently left out "material result", in this case, a finished Hawk. An investment doesn't have to be for profit, though usually it is.
  9. in·vest·ment /inˈves(t)mənt/Submit noun 1. the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.
  10. I most certainly did read your post, but your OPINION that you are not an investor does not make it true. I suggest you do some research on what Early Access means. Google is your friend. A nice quote to help understand it is "These players help fund the game to completion, but take a risk that the game may never reach a final release." If you don't think that is investing, then perhaps you should read up on what investing is as well.
  11. After reading all 311 posts, I have come to the realization that some people just have never had any business schooling. In order to convey ED's decision a little better, maybe it is helpful to illustrate it with numbers. With that in mind, it is worth noting that VEAO using ED's store to sell their product is like consignment. ED allows VEAO to use their sales medium for a small cut, for my purpose I will use 10% as I do not have access to actual numbers, but it isn't going to be a lot and VEAO is still 100% responsible for their product and quality of it. Ok, so lets say that over the course of the Hawk being available for purchase, 10,000 people in total purchased it. I don't know what the numbers were for full price and all of the sales, but I will use $22 usd as a base average. Again, please remember these numbers are not indicative of the actual numbers, this is just to illustrate a point. So, 10,000 people at $22 is $220,000. Now, ED gets 10% of that, so they claim $22,000 for the total sales. Now that those numbers are out of the way, lets look at the last few months. Lets say 5% of all of those people bought it in the last few months. That is 500 sales for a total of $11,000, of which ED collects $1,100. Now, VEAO flops and disappears and ED steps in and says, "Ok, we will give a full refund for anyone who bought the module after Oct. 1st. Well, they only made $1,100 in profit, but now they are paying out $11,000 for a loss of $9,900 for the last few months, and decreasing their total profits from $22,000 to $11,000. Now, people want just a "small" compensation. Ok, lets say they give everyone who bought the Hawk $3. That's $30,000. Ok, now they are -$19,000 on a module that they don't even own or have rights to nor are they responsible for. You ask for a "symbolic gesture", but completely ignore the fact that they HAVE given a gesture which cuts into their profits. As a final word, Early Access IS NOT a new thing. It's been around for a long time and the consequences of such are known by just about everyone. Even before computers and digital content, EA was around in the form of investing in a business just starting up. If it took off, great. If it flopped, you were out money. It is ALWAYS a chance you take when investing in a product or business that doesn't have a finished product, but that decision to take that risk lies SOLEY on the invester, in this case, the consumers who paid for the Hawk. It is not EDs responsibility to compensate or do anything other than say sorry for what happened becuase you decided to spend YOUR money on an unfinished product instead of waiting. ED learned that they need to have a clause in their contracts that give them rights to the code should something like this happen again, and you as a consumer learned that you need to be more responsible with your money, and if you can't afford to take risks with it, don't. This isn't about refunds, this is about the fact that ED is already paying out of pocket for VEAO. They ABSOLUTELY have no responsibility to do anymore, nor do they have a responsibility to do what they are doing.
  12. Not really sure about the zoom since I use VR, but I, too, have the warthog and my throttles work perfectly. You do have to bind the "button" on each throttle to cut fuel to the engines just as it does in the aircraft. One thing I do notice is, each time I load in to the aircraft (A-10 as well), I have to move each throttle full forward and all the way back again, then I can use it to start the engines. Minor thing, but worth noting, possibly.
  13. T53FCU

    VTO Issue

    The Maximum TO weights are on page 1 of the manual. Maximum takeoff weight Rolling - 31,000 lbs/14,100 Kg Vertical - 20,755 lbs/9,415 Kg
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