MasterCaution

I have to say one thing, and I don´t care if I´m going to be banned from the forum: after two days of debate, I can´t find a single opinion that don´t come from "fanboyism". As we say in spanish, "sostenerla y no enmendarla". You think that this forum is for licking developer´s asses? ("Everything is OK, don´t change a thing, we don´t want all-weather operations, we don´t want more variety of missions, we don´t want more realism") Your prefer a lesser product? You all go against the one single guy that asks for improvements and to continue the development of the product? It´s OK. But I have to say: YOU ARE NOT DOING ANY FAVOR TO THE COMUNITY OF SIMMERS. As customer (thanks, WinterH), to have a critical attitud and ask for better productos for the price you pay, is healthy. To be a fanboy, not.

Si quieres, hablamos en español, que es mi lengua materna.

Yeah, for sure. Leathernek found information for mavericks for the Viggen, but Belsimteck can´t for the F-5E. And of course they can´t find information about ILS, IFF or INS as used by Swiss Air Force in his F-5E, for example, but Leathernet can find information about those kind of avionics in a way less exported and known aircraft as the Viggen... Well, that case, maybe Belsintek should learn from Leathernek... By the way, I´m A COSTUMER, not a fanboy. I don´t have to "find information" for them, they have to find information for me, because I pay for a product. If they would pay me, I would try to find information, buy it, or whatever.

Yeah, very different capabilities between the Viggen and the block of the F-5E belsimtek chose to develop. There are other blocks of the F-5E more similar to de Viggen, since have ILS, IFF, INS, mavericks, etc. More avionics and weapons means more variety in missions, that means more fun. Your really don´t see that.

OK. Now, tell me whose attitude is better for the community of simmers: mine, asking the developers to continue improving the plane in order of we all get a better product for the price, or yours, telling everyting is OK and they should only fix a couple of small problems :music_whistling: By the way, as far as I know, P-51D never had INS or ILS when in service, but some countries purchased their F-5E with ILS and INS, use all-aspect sidewinder, mavericks, etc., so it´s not unrealistic a F-5E with those improvements. It´s just Belsimtek chose a simplier version as the used by USAF and NAVY for training purposes because is easier and faster to develop. Unrealistic is a F-5E with Swiss Air Force "skin" without INS.

Really, guys, you don´t see what I´m trying to do here? You don´t see this is an EXCUSE to try to push Belsimtek to continue improving de F-5E? What I´m saying is "Hey, Belsimsek, there is now a new aircraf in DCS World that is your direct competence in the market and even has the same price, so start improving real good your F-5E in order to compete of not to lose sales". The objective is, as I have said, to push the people of Belsimtek (that I suppose, read this forum) to continue de development of the F-5E, so we, the costumers, get a better aircraft. Don´t you want ILS and INS, like the Swiss F-5E, in order of flying all wheater and performing deep attacks into enemy territory witouth TACAN? Don´t you want more weapons, as the maverick, in order of doing more missions, as SEAD? Don´t you want a more realistic simulation of the F-5E, with compressor stalls and flameouts simulated? I have said I would even pay some more money in order of having that kind of things (although, a 60 $ product should include those improvements for free), because I really like that aircraft. It's used right now ("Beta" version) in my country´s Air Force as advanced trainer, and was used time ago ("Alpha" version) as attack fighter. I like it a lot, that´s why I want it to be better. But no, all you say is "Nah... the plane is good as it is, with limited avionics. Belsimtek, don´t care of improving it", and, as costumer, I don´t understand. If us, costumers, push the developers in the forums to improve the products, we will have better products. If we act as fanboys, the developers will not find a reason to improve them. I don´t know if you all work for Leatherneck and don´t want a better F-5E in order of selling more Viggens, or work for Belsimtek and are a bunch or lazy bottoms, or simply you are a bit "dense".

You know nothing, Jon Snow :lol: F-5 can drop LGBs, but can´t designate targets, so it´s like launching dumb bombs, only more boring since you don´t even aim the weapons. Viggen only carries two sidewinders. Viggen carries 4. And mavericks, RB-15F anti-ship, command-guided RB-05A... F-5E only dumb bombs. Belsimtek chose to simulate a pretty simple version of the F-5E: the one used by USAF and US NAVY only for training purposes. The Viggen is a real first-line all-weather fighter. Several air forces use the F-5E with better avionics and guided weapons: ILS, INS, IFF, Mavericks... My point is Belsimtek should upgrade the F-5E in order being a competitive product now the Viggen is in the market, same price, more value for your money. I would even pay... don´t know... maybe 10 bucks? for that kind of upgrade. Although free would be better :thumbup: By the way, as I have said several times, the Viggen is a great dogfighter. Way better than the F-5E in ascending vertical maneuvers since is more powerfull. F-5E loses energy really fast and don´t recover it.

Two letters that completely validate the experiment: total equality, not a better pilot wins, only better plane.

Ha! Quick test: AI F-5E vs AI Viggen, face to face close range, both "excellent", 30.000 ft, 580 Kn, two sidewinder. Tell me who wins. Or better I tell you: the Viggen in 5 seconds after the merge.

Admin will close the thread because I say that you get more profit for your money if you buy the Viggen instead the F-5E? :huh: All I´m doing is not "moaning about the prices". All I´m doing is answering the question.

Off topic about the price? You don´t care about price when you buy something? You must be really wealthy :thumbup: Viggen and F-5E are both 60 $. Things that can be done with the Viggen and not with the F-5E: - To fly all weather. - To navegate by using INS. - To land by using ILS. - To use a complex A-G radar. - To perform A2G precission attacks with missiles. - To perform STOL operations. Things that can be made with the F-5E and can´t be made with the Viggen: - None. F-5E is a good dogfighter, also the Viggen. F-5E can perform A2G attacks with dumb bombs, guns and rockets. Also de Viggen. So, you get more profit for your money by buying the Viggen, also a really cool plane and a realistic simulation. And I´m sure that´s what most of the costumers now think when they chose a module to buy.

60 bucks for a module that it's way more limited than another he already has? :music_whistling:

I´m talking about people who says "I have 60 $ to spend... What I will purchase? A plane only for day flight (not even ILS), dogfights and non precission attack? Or a plane for day flight, dogfights and non precission attacs AND all-weather flight, precission attack, anti-ship attack, and an excellent suite of avionics? For me, the answer is obvious. I puchased the F-5E weeks before the Viggen was released, but If I would have to chose now between the F-5E and the Viggen, I would prefer the Viggen since it can do the same missions as the F-5E, and a lot of missions the F-5E can't, and that means more fun flying the Viggen. I think Belsimteck should continue developing and updating the F-5E if they want to keep having good sale numbers. They said time ago they would think about adding mavericks to the plane. Well, I think this is the right moment. And ILS, INS and IFF, as export versions of the F-5E. Compressor stalls and flameouts would be a good thing to add, too.

I´m just saying that the Viggen is a more powerful and complex aircraft and a excelent simulation, and if you already have the Viggen, I don´t see the point of buying a more limited aircraft, even being a decent simulation. The price of both is the same, 60 $, and there is nothing can be done with the F-5E that can't be done with the Viggen (even the attack version of the Viggen is a great dogfighter), but you can do a lot of things with the Viggen that can't do with the F-5E, as all-weather and night operations or perform precision attacks. I think right now, most of the new costumers will prefer to buy the Viggen before the F-5E. If Belsimtek wants to compete in DCS´market, they should start thinking in some kind of "mid-life upgrade" for the product, as adding ILS, IFF, INS, and Mavericks, and compressor stalls and flameouts, IMO.

Actually, I think since you already have the Viggen, you should not buy Belsimtek's F-5E unless your have a lot of money. Don't get me wrong: is a funny aircraft (great dogfighter at low speed) and a decent simulation, but if you master the Viggen, you will find the F-5E too simple. There are versions of the F-5E with avionics and guided weapons used even today by several air forces around the world, but Belsimtek is simulating the less complex version of the F-5E, the one used by US Navy and USAF for training purposes, not as a first line, all weather fighter. There is no ILS, no IFF, no inertial navigation, no autopilot, no maverick or other air-ground guided weapons (well, GBU´s 12, but you can´t designate targets). Also, is not as realistic simulation as Leatherneck´s Mig-21BIS, for example (pretty similar aircraft). Compressor stalls and flameouts are not simulated in this F-5E. As a fellow user of DCS, my two cents is this: if you already have the Viggen, stay with the Viggen, since is a more powerfull and complex aircraft and you will do more things with the Viggen than with the F-5E. If you want to buy a interceptor as a couple for your Viggen, I recommend you the Mig-21BIS since is a more realistic simulation.