River

I hope you find your freedom in life, it's defo not between keyboard and chair.

Mate I don't need takeoff tips. It's about how it's programmed when you leave the runway with the tires. There are aircraft in DCS that have done it right, the majority in fact and others lack a proper modeling for a smooth takeoff roll. You do you and be the best pilot on the planet if it helps but nobody can tell me the Mirage 2000, the F 15E, the Harrier and the Mig 21 did a good job modeling an aircraft leaving the runway surface. F1 was bad too, didn't fly it the last month though. Can't give an opinion here. I've watched videos of the above mentioned aircraft taking off, the DCS takeoff roll is a joke compared to RL. F 14, F 18, F 16, A 10, all the DCS trainer aircraft, F 86, Mig 15, F 5, pretty much any other module got this right. And they have all different airframe shapes, wings and engines. Thats a bad excuse. I think the devs produced one of the best looking modules we have in DCS, Heatblur level I'd say. The programming of a sweet and well controlable takeoff is not a strength of them. Some aspects of the FM are always questionable too. See this thread for example.

Aircraft are different and need different handling ? Well thanks for that hint. POH for every single one of them ? Who would have guessed. And they take off in different ways ? I can't believe it. I don't have general problems with MANY aircraft in DCS, I am pointing out the F 15 acts the same weird way on takeoff like the Harrier, the Mirage 2000 and the Mig 21. You may not like it, fine. That you pulled that keyboard and chair card is beyond bad. I know by now you are the elite, anymore aviation secrets to share ?

The nose bob needs to be worked on and the takeoff is weird. It's like she's glued onto the runway. I have the same in the Mirage 2000 and the Harrier. A smooth takeoff is basically not possible. It's a hopping down the runway till you get to a point where it feels like a scripted event getting off the tarmac. Mirage has a left right wobble on top during takeoff roll. Mig 21 has it too btw, the takeoff feels so scripted, there is no control when you lift the front tire and send her of the runway. Without wind and turbulence in the mission it gets better. Maybe Razbam has trouble with wind, turbulences and tire friction, IDK. I just wish Razbams modules would takeoff like the F 16, F 18, L 39, etc. It's so much joy and smooth. Tomcat is a hard to takeoff smooth but it's perfectly doable if you have some time in the jet.

I still think it shouldn't fly that way in DCS. Something about the trim doesn't feel right. Back in the hangar, will check again after a few patches.

Don't you have rudder pedals ? Your turns are quite uncoordinated ...

This is what you wrote: " At 0:40-0:41 seconds you trim, the AP giving down goes away when you press trim, causing a pitch up that still happens when trim is released and stick centered, so when AP re engages it has to go back to down input to stop pitch up. This also happens at 3:49-3:51 during your second mission" Truth is, this is the first explanation that makes sense !!! Now that we aren't talking anymore about additional inputs or that we keep pulling or pushing the stick it's leading to something. I'd like to highlight the important part first because it made a difference for me: ... "causing a pitch up that still happens when trim is released and stick centered"... So in a real aircraft, the pilot would for example: - give 20 % cyclic back (the AP is adding pitch down support), - click trim, - doesn't move cyclic at all, - the AP acting for pitch down disconnects, - the aircraft pitches up because it wants to get to the "real, clean" attitude it should have without any AP support, - the AP reconnects and stops the pitch up momentum by adding again pitch down support. Is this little summary correct ?

Thats great news ! The second line tells us a lot about yourself.

There is - - - NO - - - movement left over from after trimming, thats the point of the whole discussion. It's beyond me why this false statements are being repeated over and over again. It's getting tiresome. Completely false and crazy assumtions followed by extended explanations how the Mi 24 systems work in real life ... just to create an explanation to cover the false assumtions from the beginning. The stick is neutral, zeroed out. Same as you would have it in the real aircraft if you trim and don't move the cyclick anymore. We really need to get that out of the way, nobody here keeps pulling or pushing in any direction, nor do we fight an autopilot whatsoever. As another user already wrote, at this point nobody cares anymore what the AP is trying to do. In fact most of us have already a clear understanding what the AP is trying to achieve. At the end we have all read the same manual and available documents. It's now all about transfering the package into DCS. The current trim implementation in DCS would be extremely dangerous in real life. If the pilot would try to hold down trim and slipped off or doesn't get the trim button to stay depressed, the aircraft would give you a sudden, unwanted and hard to manage change in attitude. Your biggest enemy would be your trim button. Just don't you never accidentally click the trim ... it could be a wild ride. The aircraft would be good for a nice try exhibition piece in a museum but that's about it. I can't feel any changes with the last patch btw. To me trim is still acting weird.

Gloria, you are making crazy assumtions here. I am neither "keep pulling back" as you wrote nor do I "keep pulling up". I do NOT keep pulling back after trimming, I eather reset my return to center spring stick back to center within 0.5 seconds (instantly) in Instant trim mode or do the same when using Central position trim mode. Once again, I do NOT give any input at all. Neither down, up, etc. The stick simply goes back to center as supposed to when using Instant trim or Center trim option. Instant trim and Central trim option are there to avoid that for us spring stick users. You eather go back to center right away (INSTANT TRIM MODE) or you you decide when to go back to center. Till then your axis inputs are locked (CENTRAL TRIM MODE). As stated above, I do NOT give ANY input. It is the AP that brings the aircraft to the before trim attitude. INSTANT TRIM OPTION AND CENTRAL POSITION TRIM OPTION should prevent a spring stick setup giving inputs when returning the stick to center. The current state of the discussion is the only people defending the trim behaviour for spring stick users in the Mi 24 are eather using FFB or a no spring setup with a dry clutch.

They gave us ALL needed bindings and axis, superb job by the team. Thanks so much guys!

The trim behaviour for all return to center (spring) stick users is a 100 percent broken and doesn't allow us for precise trimming and thus smooth and enjoyable flying. See my short video below. I can't speak for FFB users or no spring stick bases but Instant trim option and Central position trim option does NOT work properly. When depressing and holding down trim we loose everything, no AP input and what seems to me no SAS helper anymore. The helicopter flies barebones, just as you would have pressed AP emergency off button. After releasing trim button the new attitude is set and no other input by the AP is given, there is no overshoot of pitch or roll AP. Clicking the trim button resets the AP for a moment but the AP goes back to the attitude it was at before the trim click. This goes for both AP channels, roll and pitch. Clicking in small increments just masks the issue. The AP should not go back to the previous attitude after clicking trim. I talked to some people about this problem and there are a thousand different takes on that matter. As there are many other user complaining about this exact issue and are desperately awaiting a fix, I will track this further down till we know whats wrong and how it can be solved. Right now a smooth and reliable trimming for spring stick users is not possible. As of now I don't believe clicking trim should bring the AP to zero and then back to the before click setting nor do I believe holding trimmer down makes you control a Mi 24 that acts like there is zero SAS working as long as trim is beeing hold. Thats my 2 cents for now....

Just to be clear, I never stated that hovering and precise flying isn't possible in the Apache. I can do it myself, all good. The issue is that it is way too unstable and sensitive overall. Just very tiny collective changes make the Apache yaw which you have to counter with pedal movement. This is normal as it is a helicopter and all other Helos in DCS act the same way. But the needed inputs with the Apache are way too small. I can barely see my physical collective or rudder pedals moving yet that thing acts like you give 20 % collective / pedal compared to our other DCS helicopters. We should be able to takeoff, hover and do some slow flight maneuvers without the need to crawl ourselfs onto our pedals the whole time. It should be an enjoyable and smooth collective and pedal movement. Lowering Y saturation for the pedals down to about 60 helps a lot but that is just a workaround. The FM needs some tweaking and I think we will get there. Just takes time.

Why does everybody want a switch seats option? It's a simulation. We shouldn't even have Petrovic, Jester or George. These are Multicrew aircraft and yes, you need other players to fly and fight with them. All that resources coding AI copilots could be used for ground unit behaviour or other core game issues. I'd say give us Multicrew for all Multicrew airframes and just let the player base fill the slots. If someones not keen on being a CPG or just a gunner he won't need Multicrew at all.

Did you laser range or lock that target up? Think you only get the range circle when you lock or laser range a target. Your picture doesn't show any distance in the bottom of your HUD.