CougarFFW04

Ok. I Will see if it's worth trying... Good to know. Thanks OK. I will see if it's worth asking... I generally like to understand how things work, how and why... Sure. My goal was to test how they behave under "stressing time constrains" Thanks again :thumbup:

OK thanks

Hi, See my message : Don't you get inconsitancies ? Is the copy/paste officialy supported by the ME ? Thanks

Nobody ?

isn't it something ED developpers might answer ? OK will try. Thanks. Nevertheless this seems to me like a workaround to something that sounds like a "bug" That's clear that they have to rush to reach WPT1 on time. But as you might have seen, they can do it in the "No Sam" scenario ( the M2000 leader fly at about 300knt to be on TOS@WPT1). The point was the different behavior bewtween the two scenario. Assuming that the FP is "as it is", I do not understand what I could do. I have already lower at the minimum the speed (unlocked) to reach WPT1 to maximise their chance to be on TOS. As far as I see there is no way to take into account the taxi time... Changing from "departure from runway" to "cold start" (or whatever) do NOT change anything in the timing as computed by the ME software. Any advises ? Thanks again. ++

Hi, Tested with a new mission from scratch and same behavior. When introducing the Sam, Flights become crazy and do not respect speed. They rush from WPT to WPT at 800knt :(:joystick::cry: Bug ?

Hi All, There are otion in the ME to clone triggers, conditions... What about if I want to clone a flight with it's flight plan ? The classical method Ctr C (copy)/Ctr V(paste) works but it seems to introduce bugs... I did it but got some inconsistancies and in particular the editor seems to be confused if a flight reference (for exemple escorte, follow,...) another one. Any way to do this properly ? Thanks

Works although it seems that there is a bug : if you set only distance parameter it is ignored. You must set both distance and lateral.

Hi Feefifofum, Did that but didn't notice any improvements. Finally only one .miz is enough to test the "Mad" behavior. I have observed that when the SA3 is far enough everything is good. However, when the battery is closer, at a certain point they become mad although far from the SA3 engagement circle... So I suggest to run first the provided miz where I put the SA3 far enough. Then edit the mission and move the SA3 battery inside the Su 27 FP (it is close enough to make M2000 Mad) and test it again (point2). Please also note that there are certainly many ways to achieve what I wanted to test here i.e. basically flight pushing together and CAP behavior. You have already pointed to me somme different ways to do this (and it is what I am testing now) but the question here is NOT how to do this differently but with do one observe this "mad" behavior and if its a bug to submit to DCS if possible. 1) So please first take a few minutes to run the .miz attached as it is and observe the general picture (observer F10 view) : M2000 (Mike), F15 (Farmer) and C130 (Cowboy) takeoff and join WPT1. As soon as they all reach WPT1 they push with a delay of 10s for Farmer and 20s for Cowboy and proceed to next WPTs at the right speed as defined in the ME. In particular pay attention to the messages that "fire" at WPT1 and 2 and concentrate on Mike speed and behavior. The sequence is more or less something like that : Mike WPT1 -> Farmer WPT1 -> Cowboy WPT1 Mike pushing WPT2 -10s-> Farmer pushing WPT2 -10s-> Cowboy pushing WPT2 Then the sequence depends more or less of their respective positions when they push and travel to WPT2 (at 300knt) that they reach more or less at the same time. When they are WPT2 new messages are fired : Mike (Farmer, Coyboy) WPT2 and they proceed alltogether to next WPTs at ~330knt That is good and what I wanted :pilotfly: 2) Now test the mad scenario (move the SA3 closer and do NOT change anything else). Look how their behavior completly change. in particular the M2000 are the most affected. Concentrate on the M2000 : - After takeoff they travel half the way WPT1 before rushing at 800knt (in scenario 1 they were at ~300knt just to be on tos WPT1) - both "Mike WPT1" and "Mike WPT2" are fired at the same time :cry: - they orbit WPT2 and not WPT1 as they are supposed to do... - After Farmer and Cowboy reach WPT1 they push but, althoug this is not systematic, sometime Mike rush at 800knt to WPT3 (330knt in the normal scenario). I have also observed some inconsistancy of the F15 speed but it is not systematic... Please also observe the dashed flight path and how it generally stay locked on WPT1 till WPT3 :joystick: Looking forward for your test and comments. Big thanks in advance, Regards, Cougar LearningME_Test_CAPDebug.miz

Hi everybody, Don't know if it is the right place to put this... Moderator might move it to the right forum room if needed. Still playing/learning ME and I have observed a very strange behavior that I cannot explain. I don't know if this is any kind of AI logic or if this is a bug... Bug IMO. So I started with a very basic mission where 4 M2000, 4 F15E and 1 C130 assigned with "None task" simply fly their FP and RTB (there are also a few other flights that we can ignore as they behave the same in both missions (see after)). I have managed that the 3 flights orbit WPT1 till they all reach it and then they push alltogether to WPT 2, 3,... I have also managed to "fire a message" when they reach WPT1 or 2 (for exemple "M2000 reached WPT1" or "F15 reached WP1" or "M2000 reached WPT2"...) It works pretty well and when I run mission in F10 view, they do what they were supposed to do :) As shown in Pic1 the F15 and M2000 are orbiting there respective WPT1 (waiting for the C130) before proceeding normally to next WPTs... I also get the WPT messages correctly when the different flights pass WPT1 or 2. Everything fine. :thumbup: http://img110.xooimage.com/files/a/0/d/testfp_samfar_small-54dee25.jpg Then I have added a SA-3 battery a bit further. Please note that I did NOT change anything concerning any flights. The SA3 engagement circle does NOT cover the planes FP although FPs are within the Search and Tracking SA3 circles. Basically when I run the "Sa3 mission variant", all planes behave mostly the same except the M2000 : after TO they rush to WPT1 at 800knt (see pic 2, in the no-Sam they were at 300knt to be on time at WPT1) and then orbit WPT2 (instead of 1). As soon as the F15 and C130 reach WPT1, all flights proceed to next WPTs as they are supposed to do. Although the F15 and C130 respect their GS along their respective FPs (as in the no-SA3 mission) the 2000 rush again from WPT to WPTs... I have also noticed something weird : As one can see in Pict 3, although F15 orbits their WPT1 (as they are supposed to do) they are linked (dashed line) to WPT2 :cry:. On the other hand, the M2000 which are orbiting WPT2 are linked to their WPT1... Very very strange... Last thing that might be of interest : As soon as the M2000 come close to WPT1 the game trigger both the M2000 WPT1 and WPT2 messages together.:joystick: http://img110.xooimage.com/files/9/e/6/testfp_samcloserush_small-54dee31.jpg http://img110.xooimage.com/files/1/8/4/testfp_samcloseorbit_small-54dee39.jpg So basically 2 questions : - Why do the M2000 rush to WPT1 in the "SA3 mission" ? - Why do they orbit WPT2 although they are supposed to orbit WPT1... I can provide the 2 .mis if necessary. Thanks in advance.

Hi again, Another question concerning the ME. I did a search with "patrol" but didn't find the solution. Is it possible to have AI taking-off/landing by pair ? I have noticed that if one select the "runawy TO" option at first WPT they do it. But if they start from the parking they TO one by one. How to force them to take off together ? I do not see any option for that. Concerning the pair landing, when I was experimenting the ME, in one of my first mission I DO see two M200 landing in pair. Since that never seen it again :cry: Any idea ? Thanks

Ha OK. I do see. I have already played with that. Will try again following your advises. Thanks a bunch :thumbup:

LOL :pilotfly::megalol:

Hi, Ok I do see. Still something unclear to me. Are "switch waypoint command" (I am aware of this one) and "AI TASK PUSH" (no trace of this in the manual) you are speaking about two different things ? I do not see the logic to have both (if different). Your help is much appreciated. Thansk again. :thumbup:

OK thanks. Pity that we can only tweak this parameter with additional WPT.

Hi feefifofum Thanks a lot for your advises :thumbup: What I have observed... They travel to the threat at > 400knt They return to their path orbit at 270knt (orbit speed).

Hi Guys, Another question concerning AI logic and in particular GS/ETA flags in the ME. At a given Ground Speed you need a certain time to go a given distance. CLEAR. That is the reason why the ME automatically edits ETA/GS or shows errors in case of insconsistancies. I am wondering how AI manage things if for some reason they cannot achieve the goals that were setup in the ME (assuming no errors in the ME). Lets' immagine the following scenario : I have setup a "package" (although there is no notion of package in DCS as far as I saw ?) with two flights (F1 and F2) starting from airbases 1 and 2. The flight plan is the following WPTs : 0 (TO), 1(ETA locked), 2, 3(ETA locked), 4 and 5 (landing). Except WPT 0 and 5, all WPTs are common to both flights. I have also managed that they reach WPT1 and WPT3 together in the ME (same ETA locked). Now immagine the following : for some reason (in particular because it seems that DCS ME does not take into account taxi time delay that might be very different in different airbases), although F1 is on time at WPT1, F2 take-off with a delay and is late at WPT1. In principle F2 should accelerate to try to be on time. But I have noticed that if the TO delay is too long (due to excessive taxy phase for exemple) F2 cannot reach WTP1 on time... How F2 will now manage WPT3 (ETA locked as well) ? Anyway F1 and F2 will not push together and my scenario is ruined :cry: A solution would be to introduce a waiting pattern at WPT1 (for both F1 and F2) with a stopping condition a bit latter (let's say 10 minutes delay for conveniance)... But now what about WPT3... Obviously neither F1 and F2 will be able to reach WPT3 on time... So what would they do ? In fact I have tested theses scenari and sometime I have observed very weird (to say the least) AI behavior : they were traveling WPT path at very low speed (~180 knt) / hight AOA and even sometime crashes... including path parts where I had locked the GS at 350 knt... Any comments ? What are the recommandations to have flight following as much as possible the flight plan as designed in the ME ? Thanks

Hi Guys, I have a question concerning AI behavior when they must change their MSL altitude on their flight path between two waypoints (let's call them WPT1 and 2). Altough I could not identify the reason, I have noticed that : - sometime they start climbing after passing WPT1 and then fly at WPT2 altitude till they reach it. - sometime they delay their climb and fly WPT1 altitude till a certain point where they start climbing to reach WPT2 at the selected altitude. What is the reason that determine the start/delay climbing behavior ? How can I choose between these two ? I searched in the manual but didn't find anything about that... Thanks

Hi, A few more questions about that : 1) The CAP scenario I was discussing includes two different tasks : CAP itself and Orbits. Concerning the duration which one should I set ? CAP duration ? Orbit duration ? Both ? When do the tasks start ? 2) Let's say that I do not want them to get away from more than 25 miles from their path. Is it possible to assign a maximum distance of engagement ? I didn't find this parameter in the CAP task (Not speaking here about a completly new home made CAP task with a area trigger). 3) I have noticed that when they detect a threat they fly at high speed towards the ennemi. However, after engagement they return to their path at the path speed (which I setup at 270 knt). Is it possible to make them returning to their path at hight speed without changing the track speed ? 4) Although I cannot find the page right now, the manual claims that when the task is selected, the planes are loaded with the corresponding missile, bombs or whatever. When I choose CAP, the plane loadout is empty by default... Comments ? Thanks again.

Hi Guys, Thanks a lot for the tips :thumbup: I am gonna experiment this now. Regarding Flight path on map, although I certainly missed something, I did a simple mission with four planes taking off for a "none task" mission where they are supposed to fly along their path. F10 view shows that although they pass WPT1, the dashed line stay sticked to it till they pass WPT3 which has nothing special... Anyway please do not discuss it here as I will come back to this in another thread because this behavior seems very strange to me. Dont worry I have still many more questions :lol:

Thanks feefifofum, I will have look at your missions

Hi feefifofum Thanks. As there is no parameters for the circle orbit I thought that the racetrack would do the same (different géometry) around WPT. Although the documentation is not very clear about that, the track picture suggests that you are right. Will try and report. What about the dashed flight path connected/not connected in F10 view ? Thanks.

Hi, Thanks for your advise. I know this, But actually it is NOT what I want to do. I DO want that they loops on MY WPT1 and 2. Thanks anyway

Hi everybody, I am new to DCS and DCS Mission Editor and I want to apologyse if someone already anserwed this question but I didn't find what I was looking for. So the question is the following : I would like to create a simple mission with a plane (doesn't matter which) taking-off (doesn't matter where) for a CAP mission. The flight plan would be just 3 WPT (0 (airbase), 1 and 2 (turning points)) and I would like that the plane loops on WPT1 <-> WPT2 for a given duration (let's say 15 mn for the discussion) before RTB. I tried this but I was unsucessfull to achieve this simple scenario. First I just setup the discussed Flight Plan with the default CAP enroute task. As the manual mation : I thought they would loop WPT1, 2 automatically BUT in fact they flew through WPT1 and WPT2 and then RTB to land. Then I validated the starting task condition to 100% and the stopping condition to 15mn duration but this didn't changed anything. Finally I was able to make them looping WPT1 <-> WP2 by adding a command option at WPT2 (switch to WPT1) but they still ignore the duration condition whatever I did :( I have noticed the "Last Waypoint" option in the stopping condition but didn't find something about it in the documentation (edit : got it p150 of the manual). I tried this as well but it didn't change anything. What did I do wrong ? what did I miss ? I have also a question about the dotted line flight path that show when we run a mission in map mode and click on a flight (it's path is displayed with the waypoints as circle symbols). I have noticed that sometime when the plane pass the WPT it is erased and the plane is linked to the next one. Sometime it isn't... What does this mean (erased / not erased) ? Looking forward for help, Thanks