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"Search then engage" doesn't work for Player/Client


Quip

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I'm testing this in a small simple mission... Currently in 1.2.7, but I believe it's always been there.

 

The Blue flight on CAP (F15E) is not supposed to attack any of the Red aircraft of the Map, since its "Search then engage" is set to "Fighters" only.

 

This works as expected against the Red AI aircraft (one A10C and one Ka50)

 

This does not wok against a player/Client Regardless of what I try *) the AI will attack the player.

 

I would expect this to work the same way for AI "non fighters" as it does for Client/player "non fighters".

 

 

The bug is reproducible and the mission is attached.

 

 

Questions:

1. Is this a confirmed bug?

2. Is there any known work-around?

 

*) I have tried different sorties, such as CAP and Fighter Sweep, different aircrafts such as F16 etc, and also "Search then engage in zone"

a2a.miz

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  • 1 month later...
I'm testing this in a small simple mission... Currently in 1.2.7, but I believe it's always been there.

 

The Blue flight on CAP (F15E) is not supposed to attack any of the Red aircraft of the Map, since its "Search then engage" is set to "Fighters" only.

 

This works as expected against the Red AI aircraft (one A10C and one Ka50)

 

This does not wok against a player/Client Regardless of what I try *) the AI will attack the player.

 

I would expect this to work the same way for AI "non fighters" as it does for Client/player "non fighters".

 

 

The bug is reproducible and the mission is attached.

 

 

Questions:

1. Is this a confirmed bug?

2. Is there any known work-around?

 

*) I have tried different sorties, such as CAP and Fighter Sweep, different aircrafts such as F16 etc, and also "Search then engage in zone"

I just ran you attached mission with all aircraft set as AI. The F-15 killed all red A-10 and Ka-50.

 

And I believe, this is the correct behaviour. CAP does not distinguish between aircraft types - all enemies will be engaged. That you set a waypoint task does not help here - after the task is complete (i.e. no fighters were found), the F-15 continues with the regular CAP task and engages the remaining enemies.

 

Edit:

argh. disregard this ... I did not pay enough attention ... you have set it as enroute task, so yes, I would expect the F-15 not to engage anything else except fighters ... which it did not.


Edited by Flagrum
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Thanks for looking at it Flag.

see my additional comment ("edit:") that I ninja'ed in. I was too quick - it does in fact look like there is something off. The F-15 has an enroute task to go only after fighters, but it engages all type of aircrafts. If it were a waypoint task, I would assume the behaviour were correct, but not if it is an enroute task.

 

But perhaps there is some AI logic of some sort of self defense action that takes over if enemies are too close? In an additional test I actually added a fighter. The F-15 engaged that one first. But then it also engaged one of the A-10 ... and failed ... and the A-10 GAU-8ed the F-15 out of the sky :o) So it would make some sense that the F-15 tries to kill other threads as well, right? :o)

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  • 3 weeks later...

The AI won't respect the "Engage only" rules, and will go after players regardless.

 

If I set a flight to disregard Helicopters, I expect it to do so. In the game, it does in fact disregard AI helicopters. And it does this to the end of the mission.

 

But not for human piloted helicopters. In that case the AI will overlook the "Enroute task" and attack the human player regardless.

The same is true for any combination I set up. The AI just doesn't respect players as a recognized type.

 

The problem I think lies in a very simple but serious bug. I think the player's units are not of the "known" types, such as "Helicopter", "Fighter", "Bomber" etc, but rather has its own type: "Player". So when you ask the game to attack only "Fighters", it creates a list of the types _not_ to attack, which includes the other types. Then it attacks the remaining types... Which always includes "Player"


Edited by Quip
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Sorry can't open the miz file now... have you removed the "CAP" task? if not, that will be used before the Search & Engage and therefore it won't mind limitations.

 

I used the Search & engagé with helicopter & range limitations successfully in 1.2.8, but I can't be that sure about the behaviour cause our defensive CAP Always did their jobe before enemy DCS could move to find our helos.

 

Scripting talking, "Player" or "Client" resides in the "Skill" entry, not in the category one.

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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@Chromium and others...

 

There is no need to remove CAP task etc. The AI does as it should in my tests. Except it won't do so towards HUMAN aircraft.

 

The AI's behavior in Off Line mode is as it should be. It's when a HUMAN Player is added that the bug occurs.

 

Sorry for being blunt, but how hard can this be to understand?

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@Chromium and others...

 

There is no need to remove CAP task etc. The AI does as it should in my tests. Except it won't do so towards HUMAN aircraft.

 

The AI's behavior in Off Line mode is as it should be. It's when a HUMAN Player is added that the bug occurs.

 

Sorry for being blunt, but how hard can this be to understand?

 

I never had a test in a no-human environment, and if I don't remove the "CAP" default advanced waypoint action the AI go attacking everything. I'll try anyway with an only-IA scenario and report here.

 

You're not blunt, it's only hard to understand as I can't look at the miz file and observe your exact setting, to compare to mine. As said, I'll try in a only-IA environment with CAP default task there, and I'll try in a human environment whitout it to confirm or deny what I wrote :)

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Question:

 

 

 

 

Look at the pictures. Seems to be an option "is user flag" not working. Fighter should attack me when I approach him at 25km? But it is not happening. Trigger the "unit inside moving zone" working. Its flag 1 value.

 

Where I'm wrong?

Screen_140723_195443.thumb.jpg.4faf7b2cd57e795788750c4c705258e4.jpg

Screen_140723_195448.thumb.jpg.7fbb152c3e2b74e65a2d5c534e3ee690.jpg

Screen_140723_195459.thumb.jpg.9b6b31d864015be228f53f9a4db5e82e.jpg

“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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Maybe it's cause of the "Weapon hold" that you set before the S&E?

 

try to check it :)

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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You have the is user flag condition set in the start condition. Start conditions are only checked when the unit cross that waypoint. Unless the trigger is true, thus setting flag 1 to true before the AI crosses that waypoint, then the waypoint action will never be activated.

 

Try using a triggered action, that you activate when the player gets within the specified distance of the AI.

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You have the is user flag condition set in the start condition. Start conditions are only checked when the unit cross that waypoint. Unless the trigger is true, thus setting flag 1 to true before the AI crosses that waypoint, then the waypoint action will never be activated.

 

Try using a triggered action, that you activate when the player gets within the specified distance of the AI.

 

I try, but can't work. Here's the mission. Please correct my mistake :(

User flag condition.miz

“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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How to fix the CAP task activates when an enemy approached the 25km but that is not dependent on the simultaneous checking WP?


Edited by Ragnarok

“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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In this case enemy fires beyond 25km. It is too early :(

 

If you don't keep the "CAP-a" task enemy shouldn't engage you till you get into 25 km.

ChromiumDis.png

Author of DSMC, mod to enable scenario persistency and save updated miz file

Stable version & site: https://dsmcfordcs.wordpress.com/

Openbeta: https://github.com/Chromium18/DSMC

 

The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying; immediately and disastrously.

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Dude Iam understand this, but doesn't work. I think its bug or something else. Simple task: Eagle go from wp1 to WP2. Flanker goes to meet. When Flanker aproaches to 25km of the eagle, Eagle given the task to destroy the Flanker. Nothing complicated, but it does not work!

“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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  • 2 months later...

Guys, in an attempt to bring the thread back on track:

The bug is still present, and I have yet to see anything pointing to the devs acknowledging that the bug is present. Feels sad to try helping the devs in making a better piece of software by posting a proper bug report, and not getting so much as a "yup, thanks" or "yup, we know" back.

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