MS FFB2 hall sensor mod, which sensors and setup?

Im curious as to which sensors and how its implemented on the stick. Pictures would be great!

Thank you!

no need of hall sensors on msffb2 as it already have a digital movement sensors. The only potentiometer on it is for Z axis.

PS: an the small throttle have potentiometer too... forgot about that one.

no need of hall sensors on msffb2 as it already have a digital movement sensors. The only potentiometer on it is for Z axis.

 

PS: an the small throttle have potentiometer too... forgot about that one.

the MSFFB2 have standard pots also on X and Y axis

maybe you are confusing the non FFB (precision pro) stick that have optical sensors

edit:

also the old MSFFB first version have the camera with optical sensors

Finch is correct, MSFFB PRO (gameport/USB) is that use optical sensor, like the 1st MS stick, the 3DPRO.

MSFFB2 USB use pot - seems Panasonic (?) pot rated to 10M+ cycles, as they are lasting decades.

The best HALL sensor for DIY assembly is:

- Honeyweel SS495A1

- Allegro A1324

You will see people around saying that use A1301 or A1302 with success, but stay with A1324/SS495A1, they has more sensitivity and require less magnet turn angle for set.

BTW - Installing HALL sensor in place of GOOD potentiometer don't make the joystick work "better", at the best will work in the same way.

So the reason for make this mod is if the actual pot has issues, since are virtually impossible find then for replacement. "If ain't broken, don't fix". :)

This (Russian) topic is about "overhauling" a MSFFB2 USB, include install SS495A1 HALL Sensor.

http://il2.kubannet.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=16085

BTW - In the pictures you can see the actual pot used.

The best replacement option is use GVL224 MagRes sensors since they make more easy position the magnet relative to the sensor (Achilles Heel of this DIY), he sell then for about ~$10 - he has selling topics in this forum.

Excellent thanks!

Necroing this one as im finally doing the project.

The main problem with this stick is the DZ and even with patching directly into the pots with a 12 bit controller you will still get it. So ill be adding hall sensors to it either in addition too or completely replace the pots. Either way it will be going to a 12 bit controller.

After this it will be perfect for use in DCS as you can use the FFB but have another controller doing the X Y axis. If i recall correctly though you still need to keep the X Y on ms FFB inside the game but you can set a full DZ and it will still work.

In other games depending what you want, for example force trim for helicopters you can use sim FFB which you can find on these forums. This will take over the FFB and give you an option to set a key. You can also set friction etc

Simffb https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1628706&postcount=43

Its a bit of a workaround but given the money and time you would need to build an actual force trim system its not a bad one.

I will also be adding RC dampers so i can use that as friction vs the gear feel. Grip will be VKB MCG with a 18" aluminium tube to keep it light. Its also modded for double current to the FFB and i may later add 2 motors like the 2 MS ffb one stick mod but its not currently needed.

Will add pictures later but it will be a couple of weeks due to shipping time

The main problem with this stick is the DZ and even with patching directly into the pots with a 12 bit controller you will still get it.

That is weird. When I did that I didn't get the deadzone with the 12-bit controller and that is why I removed my hall sensor mod as there was no benefits having it. The deadzone is not a built in feature of the potentiometers.

After this it will be perfect for use in DCS as you can use the FFB but have another controller doing the X Y axis. If i recall correctly though you still need to keep the X Y on ms FFB inside the game but you can set a full DZ and it will still work.

You have to have one axis bound to the MSFFB2 to activate FFB in the sim. I have usually used X-axis but recently I heard that you can for example bind the throttle axis to MSFFB2. If you have for example roll bound to MSFFB2 x-axis and your 12-bit controller x-axis it will develop a little bit of jitter to the roll control in game.

That is weird. When I did that I didn't get the deadzone with the 12-bit controller and that is why I removed my hall sensor mod as there was no benefits having it. The deadzone is not a built in feature of the potentiometers.

Yeah i thought so too so i took them out of the gimbal and it moved right away. So for me it seemed to be inherent to the gimbal which is quite weird but it happens. Should have specified that. I got the stick with the grey trigger. I have 2 sticks though as i got a bit unlucky with runaway solder on one but im going to check it for the other one now.

You have to have one axis bound to the MSFFB2 to activate FFB in the sim. I have usually used X-axis but recently I heard that you can for example bind the throttle axis to MSFFB2. If you have for example roll bound to MSFFB2 x-axis and your 12-bit controller x-axis it will develop a little bit of jitter to the roll control in game.

Great, didnt think of trying that!

Thanks

So for me it seemed to be inherent to the gimbal which is quite weird but it happens. Should have specified that.

I see, didn't think about that possibility. There might be some play at the potentiometer attachment to the gimbal as the pot fitting might be a bit loose. I had to fix the pots with tape so that I have the pot center to be the same as stick center and to prevent the pots turning in its fitting hole during use.

Turns out there was a little play in the pot insert holes so i sorted that. now its 99% there.

As for just using the slider, that didnt work

Great :thumbup:

As for just using the slider, that didnt work

I haven't tried it myself yet but it was Sadist Cain who told me that it works that way too. Maybe he has some more info how to do it.

Managed to get it working, had to exit DCS first. When i get the VKB handle and some dampers on this it will be the perfect stick!

The main problem with this stick is the DZ

This DZ is not an "hardware DZ" in gimbal mechanism - maybe due gears?

If yes, I thing you will not fix this be just installing sensors for replace pot.

Managed to get it working, had to exit DCS first. When i get the VKB handle and some dampers on this it will be the perfect stick!

Happy days dude :) Was about to say it should be just as easy as chucking the any old axis from the ffb2 in there to tell the game it's in use to send ffb signals towards.

I'm most intrigued by how you're going to go about adding dampers as my only issue now is that in the old 'hole' where the deadzone used to be there's just no force feedback ergo no centering so anything to hold it in place whilst preserving ffb would be lovely

Some WIP

Drilled trough the stick and attached a threaded rod then bent it. Sadly i was stupid enough to grab my extension while bending the rods and broke the rod so ive had to sort that.. argh

Added the pocket bike dampers these are drained and replaced with nyogel 767A due to stickiness but they are just to weak now IMO and cant hold the stick on the outer edges. I plan to make the stick have less throw anyway so its not a big deal but could be an issue when the VKG grip comes. Might need some modding and i got some other dampers on order but i suspect the could be to small and a little weak too but they cost like 3£ so not a biggie. For now this will do great

Will be using the holed bands to add stability to the rods sticking out of the plastic and will be using nuts so i can adjust the tension up and down. Should give enough stability.

This DZ is not an "hardware DZ" in gimbal mechanism - maybe due gears?

 

If yes, I thing you will not fix this be just installing sensors for replace pot.

Was due to a little play in the pot holes inside the gimbal so i fixed that

... VKB MCG.

I am curious. Use an Cougar/Warthog, VPC, CH, grip in MSFFB2 is relatively easy - and some of this grips already used by DIY people. Saitek grip too - but require more work.

But VKB grip use a unique digital interface - this grip has a controller/firmware inside.

You plan use VKB Black Box for manage VKB this grip buttons and axes?

I am curious. Use an Cougar/Warthog, VPC, CH, grip in MSFFB2 is relatively easy - and some of this grips already used by DIY people. Saitek grip too - but require more work.

 

But VKB grip use a unique digital interface - this grip has a controller/firmware inside.

 

You plan use VKB Black Box for manage VKB this grip buttons and axes?

I have WH and Cougar. The grips are waaaaaay to heavy, a big mess with counterweights. Done it and finished with that.. (if you are using springs in the stick its not an issue but im a helo pilot) I could have gone with the Virpil as i have the WH but their base does not suit me and i intend to sell the WH. VKB has a friction control on theirs which looks great and is what i need for helicopters.

Depends a little how happy i will be with the Damper mod on the FFB now really. I may go with the Virpil grip instead and keep the WH. I got a bit of time to decide. OR well they tend to be sold out on VKB and Virpil, could be a long time

Curious what are those dampers from and are they readily available?

I'm looking for alternatives for my next cyclic build currently looking at the 10 scale RC dampers (without the spring) which will be a little larger than the ones I am currently using.

Also interested in how you find using the dampers only as opposed to FFB.

I have been using dampers with no center detent for some time now and I could't go back to a joystick for helicopters.

Nice to see this sort of build stuff going on.:thumbup:

Curious what are those dampers from and are they readily available?

 

I'm looking for alternatives for my next cyclic build currently looking at the 10 scale RC dampers (without the spring) which will be a little larger than the ones I am currently using.

 

Also interested in how you find using the dampers only as opposed to FFB.

 

I have been using dampers with no center detent for some time now and I could't go back to a joystick for helicopters.

 

Nice to see this sort of build stuff going on.:thumbup:

For the dampers i am using pocket bikes steering dampers. While great for my Anti torque pedals with 1 i find them much to strong for the stick setup. I drilled a lot of rubber seals out and replaced the oil to get them right. Had to fill in with electric tape inside instead of the rubber there too. Its also very hard to get them equal this way so i would not use them for the Cyclic unless its a heavy one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Midi-Moto-Minimoto-Pocketbike-Steering-Damper-Kit-Blue-Midibike-Racing-Bike/192374434974?hash=item2cca68ec9e:g:-csAAOSwY~1Z6g66:rk:1:pf:0

I am have some 65mm 1/10 scale on the way myself but im also interested in these as they look like the oil goes out into these containers trough a tube.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-Piggyback-Hydraulic-Shock-Absorber-Springs-Shocks-for-1-10-Rock-Crawlers-Car/223034560752?var=521843722047

I got some plans today of attaching bot dampers to the Gimbal . the X i can do fairly easy but the Y needs to get a bracket so both will be completely independent. You can get the general idea here.

I want to get the damper throw as small as possible which in turn gives more leverage and perhaps some less stickiness from the dampers. If they do at all.

For this stick currently like mentioned it feels great. Dont really notice the slight movement of the other dampers when moving in just one axis but ill sort it with the bracket etc nonetheless. I initially thought the damper was a bit weak but turned out not to be the case.

Dampers only, the stick feels great! It also feels great with FFB (not much difference in feel but you got forces) but the springback and forces are a little reduced so it wont go back to perfect center all the time but almost. I would not have used this stick without the dampers. It makes a big difference in the stick feel. I can fly with just finger pressure with either or both on.

Thanks good to know, mine just stays put when you remove force from it. :thumbup:

Here's what I'm looking at, bottom picture is the prototype cyclic and hence why I'm looking for bigger/better dampers.

Adjustable would be great, I use these "type" for the cyclic and will also for torque pedals.

I currently use this type illustrative only, for my collective, they are adjustable as well.

Interesting. I have been looking at those adjustable ones myself but id have to make a custom gimbal like you. Will probably do it at some point cause i enjoy building things. How light can you get those things?

I tried to sort out a bracket system for the MS ffb but the plastic gimbal has to much flex sadly. Both need to be connected to the center rod

If you can use at least 2/3 or so of travel and keep a good mechanical advantage they are fairly light in the first detent position of the regulator probably enough for cyclic if the design is correct.

Nice mod. I'm wondering would dampers be out of place in a fixed wing stick. I have the same problem as SadistCain with the center area of the stick being too loose. I have been thinking about installing light springs to get better feel at the center. Maybe light dampers would work too. I fly both fixed and rotary wing so I'd like to figure out something that works adequately with both.

Which 12-bit controller are you using?