Lazy on pitch changes with new FM

Hello,

Is it only me having feeling that M2000 needs a lot force to be applied on the stick for pitch changes after the leatest update? Rolling the airplane is pretty much the same what we had before (happy about it).

Use AP for triming, the Mirage has changed a lot.

Yes, to me this is one of most notice improvements over last FM.

On previous model, even a very small imput on joystick would give a very pronounce response on aircraft. I have a column joystick with similar lenght as real one from mirage and I had to have a custom curve to deal with this.

Right know I have no curve on pitch axis amd it feels much more natural . Its much more like as real planes, at least from where I pick from youtube videos.

And on top of that is much much easier to refuel and do precise flight.

Is the reaction of the aircraft as it is right now intended from the developers view or work in progress?

For me it feels not only a whole lot different than before, it also feels a bit "strange". Especially the fact that when I release the stick the aircraft seems to fight against my input and pushes the nose back in the opposite direction.

I thought it should be like it was before - I command the flight path marker to where I wanna have it and it stays there when I release the stick. Am I wrong and the reallife plane does it the same "strange" way like it is implemented now?

In regard to this it doesnt matter a lot if the Autopilot is activated in standby(? - yellow light in the AP panel) or not.

Feels strange for me anyways, had been much happier with the FBW as it was before.

PS: to add - before on takeoff roll I did a 50 % aft.-stick input and the aircraft came off the ground at the correct IAS regarding to the performance table. Now I have to apply full aft. stick to get it into the air. Is that correct? It feels a bit as if it doesnt want to fly away from the ground.

Now, despite having FBW, the plane needs trimming, and that is correct according to real pilots feedback.

They usually use AP to trim during normal flight, and manual trim during dogfight.

That's a major difference in plane behavior, and you need to get used to it.

Also at speed above 300kt, the plane will try to keep 1G on aircraft's vertical axis (Z axis).

You need to trim to counter that.

At speed below 300kt the plane wil try to keep constant AoA, so it behave more like normal plane.

That's not ON/ OFF like 301kt and 299kt, there is a transition area between the 2 behaviors.

PS: This comes from reading the old real life manual available on the web (written in French), chatting with some crews and reading various publications...

@ Painter: What speed are you pulling back on the stick ? What weapons load ?

cap +1 ext tank - 161 kts according to the table

cap +1 ext tank - 161 kts according to the table

What table please ?

I just tested the Caucasus "take off" quick mission.

Full BVR load: 4 missiles with 1 fuel tank.

I pull half stick by 130kt and the aircraft lift off passing 150kt+

Weird - it did that before the FM-update - now it does nothing at this speed with this loadout with half back. Have to pull 100 %.

Table (pdf page 14):

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/2128261/

Weird - it did that before the FM-update - now it does nothing at this speed with this loadout with half back. Have to pull 100 %.

 

Table (pdf page 14):

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/files/2128261/

Since the FM has been updated, I'm afraid that the table isn't accurate anymore.

Yet I can't explain why I can rotate at 130kt with half stick back (roughly) and you can't)...

Last chance, some people talked about it in other topics: Do you have custom joystick curves ?

If so, maybe try to reset...

No, I don't.

But I am starting getting used to the new FM. With Autopilot ON and a HOTAS button for "Autopilot standby switch" which is set to latched (press once=on, press again=off) it is well usable.

Honestly now that I retrained quite some hours, I can fly it, but enjoyment is completely gone. Whatever trim etc., it feels very sluggish, wobbly, highly unnatural, I need to do large movements with the stick and get pain in my lower arm and wrist. I tried with two different sticks (the X-55 and a CH stick), both are disappointing. I do not apply curves whatever.

It will take a while to get used to but the pain in the wrist really is a showstopper for the moment.

But I can confirm that I also can takeoff with half stick at 130 kts with a combat payload.

I don't have the knowledge to say that current sitck response is 100% correct but I'm sure its much more similar to real one than what we use to have.

If you watch youtube videos from onboard real fighters you can see that pilots have to do large movements even for small corrections. Not only in Mirage but on general fighters. Cameras from landings, refuel and even acrobatic flight where you have to keep a dead steady plane, joystics are all around.

This is very important to manage very small corrections.

Before this patch even with 1mm movement, plane react with a very pronounce responce. And unfortunatly not only in this module but on some others. Sorry, but this is a gamey behave and not real at all.

In simracing, a few years ago everybody experienced a similar problem. Steering wheels use to have only 270º from lock to lock and everybody was used to drive with very small movements. And when modern steering wheels with 900º and 1080º of steering lock start to apear we had to get used to a much bigger angle of movement to drive the same way, like real cars and I know a lot of very ggod simdrivers that took months to feel natural with that but now everybody drives like that, like reality.

I just hope that with current finetuning this new pitch change don't revert to old one.

Try to refuel and see how much easier is know.

Agree with alexbap, the new setting is much better.

With the old one I just looked at the stick and it over reacted (slight exaggeration :D ) very touchy and required saturation and/or curves or a stick extension to make fine adjustments.

Liking the new FM :thumbup:

I'm not saying that it isn't a more realistic model, as I wouldn't know and I can imagine that the larger movement allows for more precision, it's only that it feels so sluggish to me. And no I'm not advocating to reverse to the previous version, it's better to move forward rather than backward! I'll live with the change ;)

EDIT: Anyway it's not a bug and the more I fly it, the better it goes. It is definitely better in dogfights.

I had my first experience with it yesterday and found it really unsettling… I could fly the thing decently before but now not.

I have wasted some time trying to fix an issue that seem not an issue (a bug) I just wish I found this post before messing with my joystick settings.

Someone mentioned about flying with auto-pilot on, up to now I was only using AP for maintaining attitude or altitude. Is it a case that we now need to have the AP on as earlier as possible and fly with trim?

Also someone mentioned that refuel is easier I guess there will be no need to change FBW to load mode anymore correct?

Also someone mentioned that refuel is easier I guess there will be no need to change FBW to load mode anymore correct?

You never needed to do it but it help and it is done IRL so might still want to do it.

I had my first experience with it yesterday and found it really unsettling… I could fly the thing decently before but now not.

 

I have wasted some time trying to fix an issue that seem not an issue (a bug) I just wish I found this post before messing with my joystick settings.

 

Someone mentioned about flying with auto-pilot on, up to now I was only using AP for maintaining attitude or altitude. Is it a case that we now need to have the AP on as earlier as possible and fly with trim?

 

Also someone mentioned that refuel is easier I guess there will be no need to change FBW to load mode anymore correct?

myHelljumper is right for refuelling. CHARGES mode makes the aircraft less nervous, and most of the time you would fly with at least one fuel tank, and you should go switch to CHARGES with fuel in external fuel tank. Once you are steady behind the tanker you can use AP to trim then disconnect it.

AP trim both pitch and roll. But overall, now you have to trim, either using AP or with stick trim (like Su 27).

I had my first experience with it yesterday and found it really unsettling… I could fly the thing decently before but now not.

 

I have wasted some time trying to fix an issue that seem not an issue (a bug) I just wish I found this post before messing with my joystick settings.

 

Someone mentioned about flying with auto-pilot on, up to now I was only using AP for maintaining attitude or altitude. Is it a case that we now need to have the AP on as earlier as possible and fly with trim?

 

Also someone mentioned that refuel is easier I guess there will be no need to change FBW to load mode anymore correct?

...what I do (that way it feels closely like before update):AP on, press AP standby and keep it pressed (this way it works also in the real aircraft) - look Autopilot standbyup in the controls list and bind that to a button on your HOTAS which you can press easily the whole time or set that button to latched in your HOTAS software (latched=press once starts the keypress, press button again stops keypress).