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EDIT: The F-86F-25-40 Standard aircraft characteristics document lists an empty weight of 11125 and a basic weight of 11585, a difference of exactly 460lbs, exactly as calculated in this thread once the ammo discrepancy and pilot are taken out of the equation. EDIT: The sabre's ammunition weight is too low not because the wrong round's weight is modeled, but because a lower number of rounds are modeled. Each gun has 267 rounds instead of the intended 300. They are firing M2 API and M20 APIT, at 1 APIT to 6 API for these rounds, + the weight of the links, the total weight should come out to 530.628lbs. I will leave the original text of the OP unaltered. As per the weight listings in the sabre flight manual, sabres of the F-25 and later variants have a gross weight of around 15,175lbs. Gross weight is stated as being a full load of machine gun ammo and fuel, on top of a 230lb pilot. Those parameters in DCS bring the ingame sabre to a weight of 14,434lbs Where is the weight loss it's not fuel as that is accurate to the pound. Ammunition weight is supposed to be around 518-534lbs so there's part of the missing weight. Also the empty weight as listed is supposedly correct. But there's the issue. The empty weight of the sabre does not include the weight of the six AN/M3 .50caliber machine guns in the nose. The empty weight of the real sabre is 11,125lbs WITHOUT the guns. But lets break down the ammo weight first in DCS 100% machine gun ammo is listed as 483lbs, not sure where this number comes from That is, unless the only rounds we're firing are armor piercing incendiary, which they aren't since we have a ton of tracers. CARTRIDGE, armor-piercing-incendiary, cal. .50, T49 0.23lbs per round 1800 rounds 414lbs, but that's not all, the links between the rounds are 0.038lbs each and there are 1806 of them another 68.628lbs bringing the ammo weight to 482.628 then the UI rounds it to 483. This is wrong, as we are clearly firing tracers, which at minimum are 0.24lbs per round if they're also armor-piercing and incendiary, which would bring the weight to 500.628lbs. However lets assume it's simple In game the sabre appears to fire 1 tracer after 5 non tracers, so 1 tracer every 6th round lets simplify it to the calculation of bullets alone for 1 gun and make the rounds simple tracer and ball/AP as ball/AP are both the same weight 300 rounds 50 are tracers, 0.25lbs per round = 12.5lbs 250 are ball/AP, 0.26lbs per round = 65lbs combined that's 77.5lbs for all 1800 rounds that's 465lbs Including the 68.628lbs from the 1806links that's 533.628lbs thus 51lbs more than our current in game listing of 483 (482.628)lbs there is 51 of the 741 missing pounds 690lbs left What is included in the gross weight of the aircraft? lets take a look "Approximate gross weights include pilot (230 pounds), full internal fuel (JP-4), and 1800 rounds of ammunition. so 690lbs left, lets take 230lbs away to account for the pilot 460lbs left, where is it. It's not the fuel, the fuel is accurate to the pound. It's the guns null 64.5lbs for the gun without the recoil adapter assembly and presumably without the barrel as well 4.5lbs for the recoil adapter assembly 10.91lbs for the barrel 75.41lbs per gun without the recoil adapter, or 452.46lbs for 6 guns, 7.54lbs under our remaining weight 79.91lbs per gun with the recoil adapter, or 479.46lbs for 6 guns, 19.46lbs over our remaining weight I'm not sure what the recoil adapter actually is so, lets assume it's used, now lets assume instead of ball/ap, the non tracer rounds are actually API, which weigh 0.01lbs less per round, IE 15lbs less for 1500 rounds we are now only 4.46lbs overweight But, what if the tracers are actually armor-piercing-incendiary-tracers, which also weigh 0.01lbs less per round, IE 3lbs less for 300 rounds We are now only 1.46lbs overweight Seems "approximate" enough to me Solution, increase empty weight by 479.46lbs and another 230lbs if the pilot weight isn't modeled after the fact, and then increase the ammunition weight to a rate that coincides with the type and amount of rounds being used in the belts.
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MVP KOREA 1952 Combat Server GUNFIGHTERS | MULTIPLAYER COMBAT EVENT Saturday, 13th November 2021 - Starting 18:00UTC During 1952 the skies of North Korea raged with F-86F Sabre and MiG15's, battling it out for aerial supremacy. These epic dogfights would challenge pilots on both sides, earning them the title of GUNFIGHTERS and securing their place in history. The MVP Community extends an open invitation to pilots of all experience levels to join us on the MVP KOREA 1952 Combat Server, Saturday (USA) 13th November from 18:00UTC for this special multiplayer combat event. MVP KOREA 1952 DISCORD: REGISTER TO FLY -------------------------------------------------------- You can register to fly this event on the MVP KOREA 1952 Discord, at: https://discord.gg/frKCh9PGCN Simply post your DCS Game Name and Preferred Aircraft Type in the #event-register, under the GUNFIGHTERS section. SERVER INFORMATION -------------------------------------------------------- MVP KOREA 1952 Combat Server Maximum of 75 players SRS for pilot communications DCS Caucasus (Winter) F-86F Sabre MiG15bis P51 Mustang I16 UH1H Huey EVENT LIVESTREAM -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.twitch.tv/muggavirtualpilot -
requested DCS F-86-F35 missing ordinance AN-M65A1 W/T142
=RS= Hart posted a topic in Bugs and Problems
Hi all, just a quick post highlighting some missing ordinance that the Sabre historically was equipped with as per manuals for the F-86-E series and F-86-F35 (the Sabre we have in game). As per the manual for the F-86-F-35 and F-86-E-1 shown above, the Sabre should have access to the M65A1 bomb with the T142 fin assembly on pylons 4 and 7, currently in-game the Sabre has access to the M-64A1 general purpose bomb and M177 "Demolition" bomb on these pylons. F-86-F-35 documentation F-86-E-1 documentation Currently in game the only M65A1 that is in game I believe is part of the WW2 assets or is a droppable ordinance from the AI B-52/B-17 You can see what I'm assuming to be the 1000lb bomb above, used in this video by the Grim Reapers showcasing the AI B-17 below https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKKNpg2olFM The M-65A1 W/T142 fin can be seen here in this manual of ordinance (OP-1280 Aircraft bombs) Thanks in advance for adding this ordinance option as I was surprised to learn it wasn't already in the sim. References/source bibliography F-86-F manual http://aviationarchives.blogspot.com/2017/07/f-86f-flight-manual.html F-86-E manual (No PDF available at time of report, listing point of purchase) https://www.amazon.com.au/Sabre-Pilots-Flight-Operating-Manual/dp/1430312335 OP-1280 https://bulletpicker.com/pdf/OP 1280, Aircraft Bombs.pdf
