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New pilot problems with descending


stray cat

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New pilot here.

 

When attempting to descend, the following happens:

 

After flying forward I slowly go into hovering, then start lowering collective to about 60% and the heli starts descending a bit at first, but then accelerates and it just falls out of the sky. What is causing that and I how to avoid it?

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New pilot here.

 

When attempting to descend, the following happens:

 

After flying forward I slowly go into hovering, then start lowering collective to about 60% and the heli starts descending a bit at first, but then accelerates and it just falls out of the sky. What is causing that and I how to avoid it?

When you are slower than 20...40 kts and descend too fast, your helo gets into the so called vortex ring state (VRS). Make sure you descend very carefully in in this case to avoid VRS and also fly a proper approach so that you don't get into hover too early (too high above the ground).

 

The manual explains VRS and how to avoid it. Also if you search the forums you will find a couple of threads that go into the depths of it.

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Not really. The issue isn't the airflow generated by the rotors disappearing, but rather that airflow being thinned out due to being continuously recycled and made warmer, as opposed to when moving forward, when you keep using "new" air as you move forward so to speak.

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Not really. The issue isn't the airflow generated by the rotors disappearing, but rather that airflow being thinned out due to being continuously recycled and made warmer, as opposed to when moving forward, when you keep using "new" air as you move forward so to speak.

 

No. stray cat's description wasn't far off. VRS is a complex phenomenon that manages to affect the angle of attack of the rotors differently in different places: at the blade root angle of attack increases to a stall condition, while simultaneously reducing angle of attack at the blade tips (leading to reduced lift).

 

To escape VRS, try and get out of your downwash. Do this by picking up speed and/or REDUCING power (sounds counter intuitive, but it works). This is not always practical close to the ground though...

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Yes I noticed when I was already dropping and then maxed the collective it just accelerated the fall. Now I have learned to watch the altimeter, if it goes down quick, followed by the helicopter starting to shake I just nose dive a bit.

 

 

But how do you safely descend from hover? To my surprise I was able to pull off sliding landings much easier than trying to land from a hover. By sliding landing I mean flying in fast and low then dropping the collective to almost nothing, nose up and dead stop slightly above the ground.

 

And is it normal that a huey is almost uncontrollablly difficult to handle when trying to hover? Or is that something all helicopters have? Or, is my joystick and its settings to blame, or simply my inexperience? I can barely keep it straight and hovering

 

(Using a T.flight thrustmaster, with the joysick axis softened at the center with a value of 40 each).

 

I am also surprised that helicopters seem to be far easier to handle during high speed flying, while during slow flight or hovering the whole universe is out to make your bird crash

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the first tip is never descend faster then 5 Feet/s. The rest is pure practice..the Huey is a beast to fly at first, but practice makes perfect..and move the collectvive very gently..like with a sweet girl..bla bla you know..:thumbup:

My Specs:

I don`t care..it is a Computer..a black one..

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VRS is a complex phenomenon that manages to affect the angle of attack of the rotors differently in different places: at the blade root angle of attack increases to a stall condition, while simultaneously reducing angle of attack at the blade tips (leading to reduced lift).

 

Yes, which it does by recycling "old" thinner air into the rotor, i.e. ending up in its own rotor draft.

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Yes I noticed when I was already dropping and then maxed the collective it just accelerated the fall. Now I have learned to watch the altimeter, if it goes down quick, followed by the helicopter starting to shake I just nose dive a bit.

:thumbup:

 

But how do you safely descend from hover? To my surprise I was able to pull off sliding landings much easier than trying to land from a hover. By sliding landing I mean flying in fast and low then dropping the collective to almost nothing, nose up and dead stop slightly above the ground.

This is what I meant with flying an (propper) approach. As I understand it, this is the preferred way to land. For the exact parameters, again, see the manual (don't have them in my head atm :o)

 

And is it normal that a huey is almost uncontrollablly difficult to handle when trying to hover? Or is that something all helicopters have? Or, is my joystick and its settings to blame, or simply my inexperience? I can barely keep it straight and hovering

 

(Using a T.flight thrustmaster, with the joysick axis softened at the center with a value of 40 each).

It takes some practice to get into a stable hover without swinging all over the place while turing around like in a roller coaster. But after some time, you will get the hang of it. It is just the way helos work, the physics involved, etc. - especially when flying helos that don't have advanced stabilization systems like the Huey. This is just "hands on flying the bare metal".

 

And regarding your joysick settings: some like adding some curve to the axis as it otherwise might be too twitchy. Others advise to not set any curves as it can lead to difficulties when the response of the stick is always and constantly changing due to maneuvering.

My advice would be, try to fly without cuves for better, reproducible results.

 

I am also surprised that helicopters seem to be far easier to handle during high speed flying, while during slow flight or hovering the whole universe is out to make your bird crash

The pysics involved are for example the effect of translational lift (added lift due to forward movement through the air), torque changes when changing the collective (and thus the need to counter the rotating moment by applying rudder/anti-torque pedal input). The manual covers all this, too. :o)

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Not necessary at all. As long as you feel that you're able to keep the vertical descent consistent and under control, and know where to slow it down sufficiently that you don't squash the Huey on landing, it's good. I have no problem with a descent rate of 2-3 feet per second, and I'm anything but a pro.

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The Vertical Velocity Indicator in the Huey is scaled in feet per minute, not per second, so lets use this scale. The big numbers are 1000s of ft/min and the little "5"s near the 0 represent 500 ft/min. When you're at or near hover, your rate of descent should not be more than 500 ft/min. If you have a lot of forward speed, you can descent as fast as you like (as long as you don't overspeed the rotor, overstress the airframe... but VRS won't happen when you're at cruise speed). But once you slow down almost to a hover, your VVI is your number one instrument to watch and your job is to keep that needle above the lower 5.

 

Now, there's another fun phenomenon you need to keep in mind. As you slow, starting at about 20 - 25kts and until you're hovering you'll be losing translational lift (refer to the manual). So in order to maintain your rate of descent, you will need to gradually increase power as this happens. This is super important to remember. If you neglect this, your descent rate, which might have been ok at 30kts, will creep probably well beyond the 500ft/min limit by the time you slow down to a stop and you'll be in VRS territory.

 

To make matters worse, your VVI lags a bit, so if things are changing rapidly enough, you may be already descenting at 700ft/min while it still shows, say, a safe 400ft/min. You can prevent this by keeping a safety margin and not slowing down too rapidly.

 

Feeling overwhelmed already? ;) Don't worry, wrapping your head around this and developing the hand-eye-foot coordination to execute smooth transitions to a hover is the hardest thing to learn. As you noticed, the Huey (and other helicopters too) basically flies itself at cruise speeds.

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After doing some target practice I was wondering, assuming I use the guns and rockets in fixed mode, is it even feasible to attempt to slowly hover and try to open fire on ground targets? Or should I rather pre plan a strafe run and do wide turns after each attack?

 

It is often seen in war movies that fixed gun helicopters hover in place and quickly turn on the spot to acquire new targets but keeping the helicopter still and on target seems near impossible.

 

Also can the gun alignment be calibrated in fixed mode or is there only fixed and flex mode

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I prefer strafe runs, bcause while hovering you are a stationary target, and will get shot down very quickly...but you know...since 1.2.7 I mostly tell my gunners to attack everything...so I just fly around at let the Guys do the destruction:joystick:

My Specs:

I don`t care..it is a Computer..a black one..

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If we're talking about movies that represent helicopters and such seriously, the only ones you'd see hovering would really be dedicated attack helicopters like the Apace, that are built for it, with systems that enable them to hover without much pilot input, has high quality optics, and longer range weapons. The Huey on the other hand should really not be hovering. If you do so, you must place it in a very unstable position (VRS, little ability to recover in case incoming fire damages your helicopter, etc.) and you're only left with the flex guns to engage things.

 

Strafing runs from a distance, and breaking off well before you overfly your target, is what you should do with the Huey.

 

And yes, the flex guns can only be aimed in stowed mode (pointing straight forward) or with the flexible sight.

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For landings you never come to a hover you drive her straight down to the ground.

 

On approach descend to 600ft and hold 60knts visually fix on a point a third of the way up the cockpit glass from the console.

 

Now lower the collective and maintain a descent speed of no more than 500fpm at 400ft you should be doing 40knts at 200ft you should be at 20knts and 100ft 10knts always maintaining 500fpm descent rate remember as you get nearer to the ground begin to pull up gently on the collective so you don't dish out or sink to soon.

 

It may seem oh so slow but that is the correct approach in a non combat environment especially when in formation landings, dishing out to early will cause the guys behind you to loose visual of you.

 

Also do a hover power check pull collective until you have a 5ft hover and hold check the psi on the torque metre should be around 30 to 35 psi doing this gives you an accurate interpretation of how much collective you need to pull and if you have the power to get off the ground.

 

Once you have set the collective psi you now know what torque setting is needed to maintain a coordinated flight and in turns to maintain height and speed you will only need to apply small amounts of collective for turns to hold altitude.

 

For take off pull the collective to the torque setting you have determined is needed to get you to a 5ft hover now nose her over 5 degrees on the ADI and hold 5 degrees, your climb rate should be 500fpm at 70knts do not touch the collective hold the nose at 5 degrees nose down and maintain climb rate and speed she will level out on her own at 1000ft and 80knts cruise speed.

 

Things to remember collective controls LIFT and cyclic controls SPEED, you want to gain speed push the nose down you want to slow down pull the nose up, you want to descend lower the collective you want to go up raise the collective.

And remember to use those peddles.

 

If want to learn to fly the old girl in tight formations and combat environments or just want to fly her properly come over to the http://1stcavdiv.conceptbb.com/ and sign up we have many real life Huey pilots on board who would be more than happy to guide you.

Eagles may soar high but weasel's don't get sucked into jet engines.

 

 

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If we're talking about movies that represent helicopters and such seriously, the only ones you'd see hovering would really be dedicated attack helicopters like the Apace, that are built for it, with systems that enable them to hover without much pilot input, has high quality optics, and longer range weapons. The Huey on the other hand should really not be hovering. If you do so, you must place it in a very unstable position (VRS, little ability to recover in case incoming fire damages your helicopter, etc.) and you're only left with the flex guns to engage things.

 

Strafing runs from a distance, and breaking off well before you overfly your target, is what you should do with the Huey.

 

And yes, the flex guns can only be aimed in stowed mode (pointing straight forward) or with the flexible sight.

 

 

Ok so that irrational fear I developed in the last 2 days of hovering with it is normal I guess.

 

 

If want to learn to fly the old girl in tight formations and combat environments or just want to fly her properly come over to the http://1stcavdiv.conceptbb.com/ and sign up we have many real life Huey pilots on board who would be more than happy to guide you.
I would very much like to play this in a multiplayer environment. However I am not sure signing up for a clan would be the right thing for me. I am more casual player when it comes to regular times.

 

 

A question though about multiplayer, does it work similar to FPS games with a dedicated server that hosts missions or is it p2p?

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You should learn to hover well, there will be situations where a hover or a vertical (or very steep) landing will be necessary. The ability to do this is, after all, the biggest advantage of a helicopter over a fixed wing airplane. That said, hovering or flying very slowly outside of ground effect is the most demanding and difficult way of flying, both to the pilot and to the machine. It requires a lot of power and in case of an engine failure, you will probably not be able to perform a safe emergency landing. Helicopter pilots will avoid doing it whenever they can. On top of that there's the "being an easy target" aspect that others have mentioned.

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Ok so that irrational fear I developed in the last 2 days of hovering with it is normal I guess.

 

 

I would very much like to play this in a multiplayer environment. However I am not sure signing up for a clan would be the right thing for me. I am more casual player when it comes to regular times.

 

 

A question though about multiplayer, does it work similar to FPS games with a dedicated server that hosts missions or is it p2p?

 

 

I've seen more than two birds in flight so I guess it has to be more than two. Some of those multi-user games are pretty interesting to watch.

hsb

HW Spec in Spoiler

---

 

i7-10700K Direct-To-Die/OC'ed to 5.1GHz, MSI Z490 MB, 32GB DDR4 3200MHz, EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3, NVMe+SSD, Win 10 x64 Pro, MFG, Warthog, TM MFDs, Komodo Huey set, Rverbe G1

 

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The way I visualize a Vortex Ring State (VRS) is a donut with the rotor going around inside it and the helo in the center. The wind is blown down, curls outward then up, then sucked back into the top of the donut to be cycled around the donut again. The reason you lose lift in this case is that the air coming over the top of the donut ring goes down the donut hole and is already moving downward quite fast (rather than still air) It's a mad vicious circular donut. How I get out of it, is to bank really hard to one side or the other and pull collective. So far, it has worked for me... most of the time. :)

 

Practice hovering in ground effect for an hour or so. Then practice forward flight from a hover and then stop to a hover. Not too fast. Then, fly at altitude for a moment and SLOWLY make a descending approach to a hover. Remember, if you "feel" a VRS starting, bank and pull enough to stop it BEFORE it becomes inescapable.

 

1.2.7 has made the Huey very nice to fly. Ground effect is very noticeable when you find it.

 

If you are using a deep curve on your axes (plural of axis?) you will get really smooth central control but once you get near your edges (full left, full right, full forward, full back), that little movement of the stick you love will disappear (near those edges) and the stick will jump causing the helo to jump, too. You are going to have to play with the curves to get that smooth center but not too much wild jumping near the edges.

 

Enjoy your flights. It's not the destination, but the journey.

The Hornet is best at killing things on the ground. Now, if we could just get a GAU-8 in the nose next to the AN/APG-65, a titanium tub around the pilot, and a couple of J-58 engines in the tail...

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Im gonna shamelessly plug one of my tutorials here if I may. Also, a famous quote from George Carlin that also applies here - "How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, man...lots of practice."

 

QINyWv8OzyE

 

I still say this is by far the best tutorial on flying the Huey really clear and precise information

Great job !! :thumbup:

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