FAQ for F-15 AFM Development

[razo+r]

F-15C in game flight physics are the most insane exaggerated product of DCS. I was thinking the Fighter Collection group will make after F-18 launch some move in name of the real simulation but I was wrong. They want to keep this UFO without change date limit forever.

 

Remember, always back up your claims with something more substantial than an opinion.

[Harlikwin]

Remember, always back up your claims with something more substantial than an opinion.

 

Yeah... I don't really find the F15 FM all that UFO like, at least relative to say things like the F14 or the Flankers/mig29/M2k. It is better than the F18, but well, thats how its supposed to be.

[Top Jockey]

Yeah... I don't really find the F15 FM all that UFO like, at least relative to say things like the F14 or the Flankers/mig29/M2k. It is better than the F18, but well, thats how its supposed to be.

 

By curiosity, do you mean the Eagle might have higher sustained turn rate at some given alttitude, for instance ?

Edited November 8, 2019 by Top Jockey

[GGTharos]

Yep, moving intake ramps recover a lot more pressure at speed/altitude and even AoA, so you get superior thrust to an engine without those in such conditions.

[WildBillKelsoe]

there are not applicable commands to slew the radar in azimuth (Rshift+/ and Rshift+,) as opposed to elevation which is applicable. Please remove it. Also include settings for Altimeter indexer clockwise/counterclockwise.

 

Lastly, ILS mode for landing setting to home field could read HOME instead of ILSN/CSET. That way I know its the takeoff field and not an adjacent Vaziani/Tbilisi issue

[WildBillKelsoe]

I find that I lose targets on radar as they get closer to my F-15...

 

Highly recommended

[draconus]

there are not applicable commands to slew the radar in azimuth (Rshift+/ and Rshift+,) as opposed to elevation which is applicable. Please remove it. Also include settings for Altimeter indexer clockwise/counterclockwise.

 

Lastly, ILS mode for landing setting to home field could read HOME instead of ILSN/CSET. That way I know its the takeoff field and not an adjacent Vaziani/Tbilisi issue

When you use TWS or narrow RWS you can manually move the radar left/right.

Altimeter setting indeed does not work. For ILS you can change to any airfield - just check the range and runway heading. Nav is on your side.

 

 

btw: Baz000 asked the question in 2016... FYI.

[Top Jockey]

Yep, moving intake ramps recover a lot more pressure at speed/altitude and even AoA, so you get superior thrust to an engine without those in such conditions.

 

It does make sense yes, but at low alttitude what about the Hornet's long fuselage strakes (LERX) and significantly lighter weight ?

[GGTharos]

If you go low with an F-18, it's best to be already offensive but there are ways to dealing with this.

 

In any case, none of these gunzo setups are realistic at all - F-18's should be carrying their pylons (you cannot remove them in the air, you'll never see a real F-18 get into a guns fight without its pylons) which should cost it a bunch of drag and lift.

 

Fuel states should be semi-random and the match should end 2000lbs before your fuel runs out (how are you going to get home?) or in 2 minutes.

 

The you might have something similar to reality where somehow both of the wingmen have already been shot down.

[gavagai]

This module is arcade mode because of the insane g the F-15C pilot can sustain before g-loc.

 

Take any other 4th gen fighter we have, at 500 knots execute the hardest turn you can with full AB, record result. (no "warmups" beforehand)

 

F-16 = gloc <9g

F-18 = gloc <9g

M2KC = gloc ~9g

Su27 = gloc <9g and has a huge radius

F-15C = 11.8g, screens gets grey

 

I'm not arguing the airframe can't sustain 11.8g. I'm sure it can. The issue is the pilot model. Because of the Flanker's performance (easily the worst of the bunch) this isn't an FC3 vs DCS squabble the way some might try to make it. It is just the F-15 alone.

:mad:

[GGTharos]

The pilot model is the same as everything else. You're not going to sustain 11.8g for more than 5 seconds (oxygen reserve supply in blood) which is the same curve used for everything in DCS. The moment you exceed that time, it's GLOC time, instantly.

 

The only thing that's arcade here is your analysis - show that the F-15 pilot g-locs at a later time at 9g. Spiking to 11.8 proves nothing.

[gavagai]

No, you can't dismiss the point just like that. You haven't even offered a rebuttal.

 

Just tried out the Mig-29A in the same setup. Result is 10+ g, pilot g-loc.

 

With other aircraft you get gloc with less g in the same time you can pull 11.8g in the F-15. Keep whiteknighting all you want for it.

[GGTharos]

Of course I can, and, really, whiteknighting? :megalol:

 

Onset plays a huge role here and if you don't control it, your report doesn't offer much.

[dundun92]

The F-15 will reach max G VERY quickly, faster than anything else ive flown in DCS, that may be the cause. As GG said G onset plays a big role due to DCSs G modeling.

[mytai01]

What about the radar? After listening to Mover's interview of GONO (F-15C pilot), I get the impression that the DCS F-15C radar, and possibly the whole BVR capability, is severely reduced from anything close to reality. It seems consistently incapable of seeing anything past 50 miles (no matter RCS). Shouldn't it see things further than that? Even the DCS F/A-18C see further...

[dundun92]

Yes, its reported: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/english/digital-combat-simulator/dcs-flaming-cliffs-3/f-15c-for-dcs-world/275589-investigating-an-apg-63-range-is-under-represented.

Been marked as investigating for almost 6 months now :(

Its underperforming by at least a solid 40%, and thats comparing to the ORIGINAL APG-63. Not MSIP APG-63.

[jwbflyer]

F-15C A-A Tacan....Respectfully, can we get this operational for fighter to fighter use since the eagle does not have datalink??

 

Since cockpit is un-clickable, recommend an axis command for the tacan knob, and a regular button to toggle x/y, and a second button to toggle A/A and so on. Making the actual tacan setting show correctly in the cockpit.....?

 

Thanks, and happy new year.

[VTJS17_Fire]

You won't see that, it's an FC aircraft. Be lucky, you have the PFM.

 

And wait and hope, for the Strike Eagle, we maybe get by Razbam.

[Vekkinho]

Bear in mind that Razbam Strike Eagle is vanilla version which means 1989 multirole version with heavy emphasis on standoff A2G. So don't expect air superiority Eagle on steroids once you land it on your SDD. 

 

I see everybody's frustration when F-15C got nerfed with FC3 compared to what it used to be in the old days of Lock On - Modern air combat and early versions of FC2. Now she bleeds heavy as you get into a CAC ACM requiring a pitch drop and full AB usage. As you quickly spiral down in your circle fight with Su-27, MiG-29, F-16 and F-18 that maintain that sustained turning much better, have better AoA and nose pointing authority than an Eagle You quickly end up in the weeds where You dont wanna be riding in an Eagle.

She's not supposed to be there doing that. 

 

I believe it's more reallistic now and I can revert back to my bitching from 20 years ago when I said that Lock On Eagle as it was featured was too good to be true. I wasn't talking radar range and missile reach BVR superiority but F-15C seemed too agile in <250kts deck fights compared to a real Eagle. She ruled both worlds back in the day whereas every F-15C pilot would keep the fight BVR only and extend to avoid any merge and turnfights with a Su-27, MiG-29, F-16C, M2000 etc... you problably fcuked your BVR if you got into a turning fight with any Sparrows and AMRAAMs still hanging on your pylons. 

 

Remember that Eagle design started in late 60s in order to counter Soviet high and fast flying interceptors such as MiG-25 and Su-15  that acted pretty much like a ballistic projectile without a need for high G / high AoA capability needed for a turning CAC. Soviets used them in flyable SAM fashion in airspace where they had no SA-2 coverage to quickly get there and shoot all they got. The only turn that MiG-25 had to take was a U turn. MiG-25 myth soon got busted as she turned to be less capable that what was assumed just by looking at the grainy sattelite images from Ramenskoye so F-15 actually turned out far better than what was required and needed at that time and for that role.

 

F-15 truly paved a way for 4th gen fighters and latter developed "teen fighters" such as F-16 and F-18 that were developed for different purpose, multifunctional, more agile, closer to FEBA role and deployment.

 

11.8 as a G-lock trigger you're mentioning above is probably once in a lifetime event for Eagle airframe but yet in FC3 you can do it unilimited times during your flight. So not nerfed enough. I fail to see wings and stabs falling off after I do it 30 times in a role.

 

Bear in mind that this is a game, we might call it a simulator but...Those G-lock triggers set to 9 for most fighters and 11.8 for Eagle are bad DCS logic.

 

G-locks don't happen because of force spike, they happen because of duration of exposure to such force. I'm pretty much certain that any real pilot outhere would G-lock after a 20 secs of 7G. In DCS and FC3 you relax the stick once the screen or VR turns black and within 10 secs you're back from the dead, ready to roll.

 

In real life after you G-lock you have to be lucky to relax a stick and if you wake up you're pretty much done for that day of flying.

 

I have a friend who used to fly Pilatus P-3 with Croatian AF acrobatic group Krila Oluje https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x3ju-Z0EZ8

 

 

On one ocassion and during high level transition formation flight from an airshow in Greece back to Croatia he got a bad Oxy mix in Greece so he suffered hypoxia. His body and hands collapsed and he leaned fwd on his stick. His copilot could do nothing about it to fight that stick back and level the aircraft. He only had a throttle authority and could pitch that stick even more. Thankfully they were high enough and  plane got into an aggressive - G dive. Upon reaching -90° pitch his copilot managed to perform many breaks and yanks to shake his sleeping buddy's hand off the stick. As that negative G maneuver lasted for 5-6 seconds both of them had bloodshot eyes for few weeks and had to be grounded for few months due to medical reasons. 

 

Thanks to that my friend got a nick name Shtuka after a WWII Ju-87 dive bomber.   

They're both lucky to be alive. 

[dundun92]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:23 AM, Vekkinho said:

vanilla version which means 1989 multirole version with heavy emphasis on standoff A2G

AFAIK RAZBAM has confirmed AMRAAMs, 9X already, not sure where that info is coming from

[Shadow KT]

Only thing I wanna hear from Razbam is that they won't be doing an F-15E/MiG-23 and someone else, who has the skill, will.

[Coxy_99]

1 hour ago, Shadow KT said:

Only thing I wanna hear from Razbam is that they won't be doing an F-15E/MiG-23 and someone else, who has the skill, will.

 

Hope your modules are better then 

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

On 1/30/2021 at 10:20 AM, Shadow KT said:

Only thing I wanna hear from Razbam is that they won't be doing an F-15E/MiG-23 and someone else, who has the skill, will.

Ugh do you even know what you are talking about ? 
I can't stand that parrotting bandwagon behaviour.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Shadow KT]

34 minutes ago, Csgo GE oh yeah said:

Ugh do you even know what you are talking about ? 
I can't stand that parrotting bandwagon behaviour.

 

Yes, I do, thanks for asking.

[gavagai]

On 1/5/2021 at 2:41 PM, VTJS17_Fire said:

You won't see that, it's an FC aircraft. Be lucky, you have the PFM.

 

And wait and hope, for the Strike Eagle, we maybe get by Razbam.

The so-called PFM for F15 is nothing like flying the hydraulically controlled heatblur Tomcat.  Two different airframes, yes, but there is a huge skill gap between the two for BFM.  One of them requires finesse and the other is an arcade game.  It is a tragedy that any server allows the F15 to fly alongside the DCS modules.