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F-4 Phantom Who Wants it Poll


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F-4 Phantom Who Wants it Poll  

1880 members have voted

  1. 1. F-4 Phantom Who Wants it Poll

    • YES. THE MIG-21 NEEDS ITS RIVAL
      972
    • YES. Because I just want the Phantom
      718
    • No, I don't like cool planes
      79
    • No, I love the myriad of lame trainers and far flung planes with no historical opposition.
      116


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  • 3 weeks later...

I'd pay $US60 for an F-4 if it...

 

- Had all the bombing avionics (choice of AN/AJB-3 or AN/AJB-7) authentically reproduced.

Good research project for y'all at leatherneck. LABS (toss/loft or over-the-shoulder) use over a well-defended target is totally my idea of fun!

 

Some of the guys who used both are still alive! You can find 'em.

 

- Let us choose between all the relevant variants. There are a few.

 

- The E model with the gun! Hey, the ballistics are already done, many DCS flyables fly the same gun.

 

- The Israelis wanted the C/D/J model AN/AJB-7 and so do I. Guess what it's really good for.

 

- VTAS (AN/AVG-8) helmet off-boresight targeting for G sidewinders! Woo!

 

I'd even pay separately for each major variant.

 

Anybody with me?

 

Of all the Phantom drivers I've met, it seems like the RF-4 guys were the most fun.

They also seemed to smoke the most cigarettes.


Edited by sleat
Too much enthusiasm.
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- Had all the bombing avionics (choice of AN/AJB-3 or AN/AJB-7) authentically reproduced.

Good research project for y'all at leatherneck. LABS (toss/loft or over-the-shoulder) use over a well-defended target is totally my idea of fun!

 

Some of the guys who used both are still alive! You can find 'em.

 

- Let us choose between all the relevant variants. There are a few.

 

- The E model with the gun! Hey, the ballistics are already done, many DCS flyables fly the same gun.

 

- The Israelis wanted the C/D/J model AN/AJB-7 and so do I. Guess what it's really good for.

 

- VTAS (AN/AVG-8) helmet off-boresight targeting for G sidewinders! Woo!

 

I'd even pay separately for each major variant.

 

Anybody with me?

 

Of all the Phantom drivers I've met, it seems like the RF-4 guys were the most fun.

They also seemed to smoke the most cigarettes.

 

IMO the F4E (block 53 and above) and the F4S both would cover all of your needs...If they get ALL of their weapon capabilities (F4E block 53 was first to be able to use GBU-15 and probably GBU-8... and AFAIK it could carry Pave Tack and/or Pave Spike TGP...then add the F4S for a naval/marine variant with most of the E's capabilities)

 

This would all be a massive undertaking though, and would probably be out of the hands of 3rd party devs.

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I would buy the F-4 in a heartbeat,should it ever become available,in fact I am very surprised at ED that they didn't make the F-4 as one of it's first priorities,it's iconic.

 

 

Re model choice,I would be very happy with a F-4D or F-4E this would fit very nicely with a Vietnam scenario,should we ever be lucky enough to get one,but I'm just dreaming here,lol.

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I voted "No, I love the myriad of lame trainers and far flung planes with no historical opposition" honestly cause I didn't like your attitude about the subject, sorry. These trainers, while similar, all have their uses and information is easy to obtain for them. Why lame trainers? Are WW2 and KOREA planes lame because their not supersonic or don't have AB's? If I use that logic every plane but the SR-71 in FSX should be just ignored cause they don't go Mach 4.

 

Though I do think the Phantom would be cool, unless the developer is certain they could get a good ai pilot/wso than I think they should focus on something else from the Vietnam era that would be easier to implement, like the F-105D

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Hi again,

 

I wait the F-4 and I hope that aircraft will be available one day.

A real aircraft of legend.

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  • 2 weeks later...
question from newbie is the F4 in dev ? if yes, release date planed ?

As far as I know, no it's not. :(

 

But we do have an awesome stream of other modules coming mid-late 2017/early 2018. From the retro BVR of the F-14A/B to the superb dogfight capabilities of the MiG-19p we all really have a lot to look forward to. And that's just for A-A! We have the AV-8B N/A coming for the strike jump-jet role, and the F/A-18 can do everything (well, it can't hover...)! :D

 

And when looking in to the speculative range Leatherneck are cooking something and the RAZBAM MiG-23 (unlike the MiG-19p) was not given permission for because "unlike the MiG-23 the MiG-19 didn't conflict with already existing plans"... :P

DCS: MiG-23

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Voted no,

IMO more red planes are needed like mig-23 or early 29

Especially after the hornet and Tomcat arrive.

Agreed! MiG-23/29 (early) would be awesome! Though the F-4 would be cool as well, I would put priority on Russian birds. :)

 

I think the MiG-23 (me likey M/MLA) would be a bit easier to get info on and is still very interesting (in my opinion more than the MiG-29), I think it would be a better candidate far a module. But who wouldn't want em' both? :D

DCS: MiG-23

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Voted no,

IMO more red planes are needed like mig-23 or early 29

Especially after the hornet and Tomcat arrive.

 

but The F4 phantom is very important 3rd generation era western aircraft. Its one of the bigger True historical opponent to the Mig21, Far more important than the F-5, which is not nearly as renowned as the F4. ( combat usage in Iran/iraq war, and some skirmishes in Somali- Ethiopian conflicts) Its was really just aggressor aircraft. and outside the US mostly a poor mans export for those who could not afford the phantom or merely had modest defense needs ( like Canada or Switzerland. In no way poor impoverished countries by any stretch, but simply don't like to spend much on defense). Even so, F4 variations were still exported widely. so you can still have an opportunity with the right skins to represent air forces of nations outside the US.

 

alternatively from a technological perspective its also something that will be needed to better counter the Mig23. After all the Mig23 was built to counter Western standard 3rd generation aircraft, thus compete with the late F4's ( like the F-4E) and Mirage F1.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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alternatively from a technological perspective its also something that will be needed to better counter the Mig23. After all the Mig23 was built to counter Western standard 3rd generation aircraft, thus compete with the late F4's ( like the F-4E) and Mirage F1.

Being required to counter the MiG-23, would in the first place require a MiG-23 (plez let my hope that it's being developed be true)! :D

 

Now that would further come down to which version of the MiG-23 and F-4 are we going to get? For example if we get a late variant MiG-23 (MLA/D) it is going to be more competitive with the F-14 and modern thingies, and miles ahead of F-4's and Mirage F1's. But if we are going to get the truly iconic MiG-23M hen it is going to fit right in with the F-4 and Mirage F1, though not being as big of a step from the MiG-21bis against modern aircraft than the later versions would. :)

 

I could go either way. One is the true retro original (MiG-23M), the other is going to have a heck of a chance against "modern" (the current meta isn't that modern cuz dat stuff is classified :() thingies.

DCS: MiG-23

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Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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And of course the MiG-23 is needed on the Caucasus map, after all it served a major role in the Russian air forces. ;)

 

But now I can't decide between the MiG-23M or the MiG-23MLA, both would offer perfect opposition for 1 of 2 groups... If one were to be developed now I would prefer the later MiG-23MLA, just because the Tommy is coming and coming fast! Though I would have no problem flying the older MiG-23M against it, after all we RED pilots specialize in having older birds. :D

 

*EDIT*

 

If we RED pilots specialize in having older equipment, why don't we have any WW2 birds!?!? Well, Matt Wagner said that they would get around to making RED WW2 birds when an Eastern front map would come out. If I had to pick a location I would get stuck between 2 options:

 

1) Baltic Sea map: Would allow for WW2 scenarios such as the Winter war, the Battle of the Blue Hills, the Siege of (at the time) Leningrad and a whole lot of modern/Cold-War scenarios with the Viggen shining in it's anti ship role.

 

2) Stalingrad map: Would be more iconic as a WW2 map with the infamous Battle of Stalingrad, but lack in it's potential for modern/Cold-War scenarios since it is deep inside Russia.


Edited by asla36
Plez... MiG-23 and some Yak-1/9/3's... But MiG-23 first! >:]
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DCS: MiG-23

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Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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Now to stop speaking about the wrong aircraft, how was the workload shared among the pilot and RIO? Will be interesting to see how this would work compared to the F-14 that we are going to get. But first we would have to actually get the F-4 of course, so plez! :D


Edited by asla36
Grammar issues... Grammar issues everywhere!

DCS: MiG-23

[sIGPIC]

[/sIGPIC]

Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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And of course the MiG-23 is needed on the Caucasus map, after all it served a major role in the Russian air forces. ;)

 

But now I can't decide between the MiG-23M or the MiG-23MLA, both would offer perfect opposition for 1 of 2 groups... If one were to be developed now I would prefer the later MiG-23MLA, just because the Tommy is coming and coming fast! Though I would have no problem flying the older MiG-23M against it, after all we RED pilots specialize in having older birds. :D

 

*EDIT*

 

If we RED pilots specialize in having older equipment, why don't we have any WW2 birds!?!? Well, Matt Wagner said that they would get around to making RED WW2 birds when an Eastern front map would come out. If I had to pick a location I would get stuck between 2 options:

 

1) Baltic Sea map: Would allow for WW2 scenarios such as the Winter war, the Battle of the Blue Hills, the Siege of (at the time) Leningrad and a whole lot of modern/Cold-War scenarios with the Viggen shining in it's anti ship role.

 

2) Stalingrad map: Would be more iconic as a WW2 map with the infamous Battle of Stalingrad, but lack in it's potential for modern/Cold-War scenarios since it is deep inside Russia.

 

MLD is the one that would be best suited against modern thingies.

 

Mig23M is wouldnt reallt be a much better alternative over the Mig21BIs.

 

Perhaps the the Mig23ML as a compromise. , Since it has the improved agility due to lightened airframe , and a better radar. But even the the saphir 23 ml only has 20km look down, and 80km max detection range, agaisnta bomber sized target, and only around 55 KM for a fighter. 80 KM range = 43 Nautical miles. Still a bit less than the F4E's 50 Nm radar range.

 

 

the MLA in turn is still not quite there of being a proper aircraft against the likes of the tomcat. Over the MIg23ML all it has is a radar with some additional ECM resistance, and one that less prone to interference from others friendly aircraft radars when operating in close formations . Still has a old EW stuff like the Spo 10 RWR, would us R13s- R60M's IR'at best and not have R73s , HMD, or the Spo15 rwr like thre MLD does, PLus the MLD is even further more maneuverable.

 

In essence the 23ML and 23MLA , all they really have over the late model phantom like the F-4E is better maneuverability in a turn. Overall most Electronics ( Mig23 has advantage of having an actual HUD, not gunsight) along with multirole versatility are still better in the phantom, and phantom still has better cockpit visibility especially from the rear.


Edited by Kev2go

 

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MLD is the one that would be best suited against modern thingies.

 

Mig23M is wouldnt reallt be a much better alternative over the Mig21BIs.

 

Perhaps the the Mig23ML as a compromise. , Since it has the improved agility due to lightened airframe , and a better radar. But even the the saphir 23 ml only has 20km look down, and 80km max detection range, agaisnta bomber sized target, and only around 55 KM for a fighter. 80 KM range = 43 Nautical miles. Still a bit less than the F4E's 50 Nm radar range.

 

 

the MLA in turn is still not quite there. Over the MIg23ML all it has is a radar with some additional ECM resistance, and one that less prone to interference from others friendly aircraft radars when operating in close formations . Still has a old EW stuff like the Spo 10 RWR, would us R13s- R60M's at best and not have R73s or HMD, or the Spo15.

 

In essence the 23ML and 23MLA , all they really have over the late model phantom like the F-4E is better maneuverability in a turn. Overall most Electronics along with multirole versatility are still better in the phantom, and phantom still has better cockpit visibility especially from the rear.

The MiG-23ML would then be the ideal middle ground, thx! Though the MiG-23MLD R-73+R-24T temptation is always there. You can still properly sneak with even the MiG-23M, as it still has IRST+IR-MRM/SRM. So MiG-23ML would be a great full fidelity sneaking aircraft! :D

 

But now let's get back on track, F-4 talk it is!


Edited by asla36
IRST+IR-MRM/SRM Master-race

DCS: MiG-23

[sIGPIC]

[/sIGPIC]

Make it happen, and take my money! :D

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Now to stop speaking about the wrong aircraft, how was the workload shared among the pilot and RIO? Will be interesting to see how this would work compared to the F-14 that we are going to get. But first we would have to actually get the F-4 of course, so plez! :D

 

The f4 was pretty workload intensive for both crew members. I need to look in to this but both were required to fly the ac afaik.

Also no look down shootdown capability on most versions so this is a whole different bird than the f14.

The f14 will be a magnificent bird to fly and fight in and heatblur will be making a huge mistake not incorporating the bombercat functionality if they decide not to.

The f4 will be much different I think. Much harder to fly let alone fight effectively in. Will require much better crm in multi crew. I don't know if you can reach this level of proficiency in what is essentially a video game.

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The f4 was pretty workload intensive for both crew members. I need to look in to this but both were required to fly the ac afaik.

Also no look down shootdown capability on most versions so this is a whole different bird than the f14.

The f14 will be a magnificent bird to fly and fight in and heatblur will be making a huge mistake not incorporating the bombercat functionality if they decide not to.

The f4 will be much different I think. Much harder to fly let alone fight effectively in. Will require much better crm in multi crew. I don't know if you can reach this level of proficiency in what is essentially a video game.

 

really F4 tough workload? Compared to the Mig23? I have to disgree, Mig23 cockpit is switches Galore. also the Swing wings are manually operated so thats also a strain, and thus the dogfight potential OF say a Mig23MLD being able to turn circles inside an F16 is not a truly a reality because of that.. Lets just say I played the F4 in a 3 letter Civilian flight sim, and Its not as bad workload instense as you might think. and to be fair the F5E or Mig21 are not look down shoot down at all.

 

USAF F4E and USN F4S/J phantoms are very much capable of lookdown shootdown albeit obviously not as reliably good as modern 4th gen radars.

 

well than In that case For those who fly in squadrons the RIO oR WSO can be substituted by a reliable Human, if not satisfied by AI.

 

On the other hand F14 IS a 4th generation platform despite having early digitization and Analog Based functions. It shouldb't be compared to last gen stuff. If you go by that logic of comparison, than no point buying the F14 ( or anything that isn't the latest n greatest technology) because a EF Typhoon , will trump any prior 4th gen platforms , for EG ( planned by VEO)


Edited by Kev2go

 

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Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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