Combat Air Patrol /Policing with short range missiles?

[Kenan]

Why do peace time CAPs often consist of jets carrying short range heaters (I saw an example of this in the polish MiG-29 Baltic Air Policing video where they're carrying R-60s)?

 

Assuming those pilots have GCI or Awacs data link or information feed..what happens if, theoretically, they're met with a hostile enemy planning to engage them BVR, without them being able to close in and identify?

 

Speaking of identification, isn't the Awacs' job to do just that?

 

I know this may be a noobish question but I was always wondering about this.

[GGTharos]

Just a guess Kenan, bit I suspect one or all of the following factors:

 

- Not expecting to fight another fighter

- Not wanting lots of drag = fuel economy

- Missiles have a captive carry limit. Carry them often enough and they will break. R-60's are cheap.

[Kenan]

^^Interesting points. Thanks.

[dumgrunt]

another reason i would say is that it forces the pilot to make a visual ID.

 

if they were expecting to get bounced by a bogey, the presumption would be that intel would inform this threat picture, and hence would adjust their posture accordingly.

[CypherGrunyev]

It also prevents pilots from being ballsy and shooting over the border.

 

Well, I'd figure that's a thing.

[GGTharos]

No, it's not a thing. Pilots are very disciplined. It's very, very unlikely that they would only carry heaters for such a reason.

[VTJS17_Fire]

Even if there is a fighter with live ammunition which want to kill something, the GCI directs the QRA flight not head on to the bogey. They direct the interceptors with a off-set course, so that they roll out 1-2 miles behind the bogey, under him - in his "blind area".

 

One do a visual ID and the other is prepared (weapons hot) to shoot a Fox 2, if the bogey will maneuver abrasive.

 

 

regards,

Fire

 

 

PS: And don't forget, they are always two - with GCI support. If the bogey/ hostile is armed with mid-range weapons and want a BVR fight, they have tactics.

[RIPTIDE]

Why do peace time CAPs often consist of jets carrying short range heaters (I saw an example of this in the polish MiG-29 Baltic Air Policing video where they're carrying R-60s)?

The other option is R-27. I'm guessing they have none working left, or in very small numbers. They inherited a small amount of those missiles. With the transfers from Germany etc we're still talking about 100 or less of all types of R-27. That's a long time ago too.

[dumgrunt]

i thought they had integrated NATO weapons compatibility with their legacy aircraft?

[nscode]

That would be very hard (expensive) to do and they don't have much reason to do it.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

There is simply no need to carry any kind of missiles, there is no evidence of any kind of threat from Russia. Also, it could be that they are even carrying inert missiles now. Any good pictures to confirm if the missiles are live or inert?

[Bimbac]

Hello guys,

 

the most important task in peace time air policing missions is the Visual ID procedure: you simply have to visually confirm the identity of the bogey, hence the IR missiles are sufficient given the range of possible target.

 

Sometimes, radar guided missiles can be carried if there are adverse weather conditions, because as you may know, IR missiles seeker performance is rather limited in clouds or heavy rain.

 

In general, all QRA flights always carry LIVE ammunition, because you never know if you are going to need it. Heaters are cheaper, both for maintenance and replenishment and are generally lighter, so they do not take too much stress on hardpoint and wings.

 

Also, usually there are two members of QRA flight, one takes "Eyeball" position to get attention of the bogey, to ID and communicate with it, number two takes "Shooter" position behind the bogey in optimal weapons range, so he can immediately (when the leader breaks off first, of course) fire if necessary.

[dumgrunt]

That would be very hard (expensive) to do and they don't have much reason to do it.

 

considering they are now part of NATO, yes they would, and as someone mentioned their stocks of R-27s are drying up, so presumably they are no longer receiving Russian support. The Iranians integrated the f-14 and the R-27.