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AMRAAM Quick question


Sceptre
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When using the AMRAAMs on the F-15C is it advised to maintain a radar lock after shooting or just immediately switch to the next target and fire again?

I know the missiles are "fire and forget" but I don't seem to be able to hit anything unless I'm very close (almost in range of Sidewinders). I seem to have better luck with the Sparrow but it's heavier than the AMRAAM.

 

The AI F-15s however, have no problem engaging multiple of my MiGs at the same time and scoring hits on all of them.


Edited by Sceptre

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keep the lock as long as possible. To my knowledge, the 120 seeker comes on after it reaches terminal distance, OR it loses datalink from you( meaning you no longer have a lock on enemy unit)

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  • 2 weeks later...

how do you know its pitbull?

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There is a count-down timer on the HUD.

 

Also, it's not strictly "fire and forget". That term gets used too widely. A sidewinder is "fire and forget", because after it's left the rails there literally is nothing you can do for it. Active radar guided missiles however are not, unless you are firing so close the missile immediately gets it's own radar lock.

 

For the OP:

 

The AIM-120 starts it's flight guided by your radar beam's reflection on the target, exactly the same as an AIM-7 or the russian R-27. This is because it's own radar is small and weak - necessarily so, since it has to fit in the nose of a missile as opposed to the nose of a big jet. After launch, you get a timer on the HUD that displays the expected time until "pitbull" - that is, the time when the missile will chase the target on it's own, on account of having closed enough distance for it's own radar to acquire and track the target.

 

Support the missile until Pitbull, THEN you can "forget" it.

 

A handy trick, if you are unaware, is to "crank" after launch: that is, turn such that your target is just inside the edge of your radar scope. That way you can keep supporting the missile without unecessarily closing distance to the target and the possible retaliatory shot that might be heading your way. It also places you closer to abeam, making it easier for you to defeat a possible retaliatory shot.

 

EDIT: There are other ways of supporting modern missiles, though, that are not implemented in the sim - partially because that stuff is way classified. Missiles like the AIM-120 doesn't fly a lofted proportional intercept IRL, it does a lot of waypointing stuff to help it in case support is lost (but support is still good to have!). Late versions (I'm unsure about A and B, but I think C? Someone will probably say.) can also work with datalinks, meaning that they can be fed target info while in flight from any friendly airborne asset, including stuff like AWACS. This means that TODAY (as opposed to late 80's-mid 90's) said F-15 would have been able to "lock" and launch the weapon even without lighting up it's own radar. (To my knowledge this has been tested on Eurofighter and Gripen, don't know for sure about F-15 and Rafale, but I'd be VERY surprised if they didn't have the same capability.)


Edited by EtherealN
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is the countdown the timer in the bottom left of HUD?

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That should be the one, yeah.

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Just noticed this:

 

The AI F-15s however, have no problem engaging multiple of my MiGs at the same time and scoring hits on all of them.

 

Are you using STT (Single Target Track) or TWS (Track While Scan) mode? When locking a target in STT, that is, obviously, just a single target you are engaging. You are also alerting the target to the fact that you are acquiring a firing solution. (His RWR will start screaming.)

 

TWS is what you generally want to use, for two reasons:

 

It is relatively "silent": target RWR will not know you are "locking", but will know that your emitter is there. It will look just the same as when you are just scanning.

 

It allows "bugging" (selecting) up to 4 targets for simultaneous engagement. After you have your targets bugged and start firing weapons, the first weapon will go to target 1, second weapon will go for target 2, etcetera.

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The AIM-120 starts it's flight guided by your radar beam's reflection on the target, exactly the same as an AIM-7 or the russian R-27

 

Technically, not. It's not a beamrider like the other SARHs you mentioned, it's goes by MCG with datalink. That still requires you to have him with the radar though.

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Technically' date=' not. It's not a beamrider like the other SARHs you mentioned, it's goes by MCG with datalink. That still requires you to have him with the radar though.[/quote']

 

True, things got a bit mixed between "reality" and "the sim" there.

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Just to add a bit more detail to what was said:

 

1. AIM-120 timers are on the bottom left of the HUD in the format TXX MXX where T is the time to pitbull and M is the time to target. So T12 M31 means 12 seconds until the missile gets to pitbull and doesn't need your support with 31 seconds until impact.

 

2. Once the missile goes pitbull the timer changes to just MXX. If you launch a 120 and the timer immediately says MXX then that means you shot at a close enough range that the missile immediately went active.

 

3. If you fire multiple 120s, the timer on the bottom right only shows time for the last missile fired. I do not believe there is a way to "cycle" the timer across all missiles in flight to see their progress.

 

4. The bottom right timer on the HUD can be mistaken for the missile timer but actually has nothing to do with the missile. It indicates range to locked target in nautical miles and your plane's time to reach the target if flying an intercept course and there are no changes speeds and direction.

 

5. Most of these timers can be off by +/- a handful of seconds.

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Lets say you have 3 targets bugged in TWS mode. From my understanding, the functionality is such that you can launch your first 120 and your PDT automagically moves to the second bugged target. From there you can immediately launch again.

 

Does maintaining bug on the target count as keeping lock and providing data to the 120? Or do I have to switch back or keep the target that missile is going towards as PDT until pitbull?

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Lets say you have 3 targets bugged in TWS mode. From my understanding, the functionality is such that you can launch your first 120 and your PDT automagically moves to the second bugged target. From there you can immediately launch again.

 

Does maintaining bug on the target count as keeping lock and providing data to the 120? Or do I have to switch back or keep the target that missile is going towards as PDT until pitbull?

Yes, keeping the targets bugged in TWS supplies your missiles with the info. You lose a lock on one then the update to that missile will be lost and Pk will drop considerably. The trick is managing the elevation and azimuth to keep all targets in the radars FOV.

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  • 2 months later...

"Bugging" Multiple targets

 

The manual does not provide the key command to "Bug" multiple targets. The YouTube videos are older and mentioned the TAB key. The TAB key isn't currently mapped for anything in F15C. How do I "bug" multiple targets in TWS mode.

 

Sorry if the question is a stupid one, but none of my research has been fruitful.

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The manual does not provide the key command to "Bug" multiple targets. The YouTube videos are older and mentioned the TAB key. The TAB key isn't currently mapped for anything in F15C. How do I "bug" multiple targets in TWS mode.

 

Sorry if the question is a stupid one, but none of my research has been fruitful.

 

There is no command to bug multiple targets. Bugging multiple targets is just slewing the cursor over the first plane and bugging it, then slewing the cursor over to the second plane and bugging it, etc. Make sure you are in TWS mode and DO NOT press the lock/bug button twice on the same plane or it will switch you over to RWS mode and let the target plane know it is being locked/bugged.

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Forgive me, then "Bugging" means "Lock?" They are the same thing?

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