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SU-35 vs F-22


Ktulu2

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someone actually posted a link to that "news" feature to assert the raptor is crap...
I don't see anybody sane on this forum saying that Raptor is crap. On the other side of the argument, Raptor, just like anything else must be open for criticism. And obvious lies must be exposed and open for even a ridicule.

 

That's why more and more people watch John Stewart's Daily Show for news and Bill O`Reilly's "No spin zone" for comedy.

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@usar lol.. the assumptions are yours.. i used evidence from history that proved my imperative.. you still keep your assumptions calling them evidence .. my picture looks much clearer..

You made a somewhat poor fitting analogy. WWII is is a bad example to compare to modern US since the US has the technological and numerical advantage at the same time.

 

We don't know for sure if EOS can find a F-22 at 20 miles. Under the right conditions why not, but it's hard to determine if the right conditions would be present in combat.

 

Likewise we don't know if ECM would hinder the F-22's detection range.

 

From what is known, the F-22 is the better plane on paper.

 

same as with F117, amazing stealth, nobody can touch it, boom, okei maybe its not 100% bullet proof, but F22 IS.. i'm telling you.. for real. why? who da hell knows.. cuz i said so)lol..

The F-117's record makes it seem near invincible with a statistically meaningless loss rate even though it was aging and the most primitive form of its technology. It seems that stealth works and it works very well. That's why stealth is respected. Not because someone says so, but because it has a very strong record. Even Russia is trying to develop stealth so it seems at the very least that they don't think it's something to laugh at.

 

fact is, no, its far from assured thing.. as i said, if it were so assured, F-22 would be already importing democracy in Moscow and Beijing..

Before the US went over there, they would probably need a reason to do so. They have Ukraine as a reason right now and they're still not shooting.

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The F-117's record makes it seem near invincible with a statistically meaningless loss rate even though it was aging and the most primitive form of its technology. It seems that stealth works and it works very well. That's why stealth is respected. Not because someone says so, but because it has a very strong record. Even Russia is trying to develop stealth so it seems at the very least that they don't think it's something to laugh at.

 

Not to mention the operational environment of the Nighthawks was far more dangerous compared to conventional fighters yet they presented such a loss rate. Just as you said, they aren't developing stealth themselves because they got nothing better to do.

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Before the US went over there, they would probably need a reason to do so.
WOW! Yes, we need a reason ... I recommend reading "First do no harm" by associate professor of history David Gibbs. I also recommend very recently published, on MSNBC "Why we did it" by Rachel Maddow. Video is available all over the Youtube. And yes, those are the "reasons" ....

 

They have Ukraine as a reason right now and they're still not shooting.
Wow, again! Just one question for you about Ukraine? Do you know what the word Ukraine means in Russian and Ukrainian language? By the way, those two languages, is actual one language with two different names.

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If stealth is so poor, why is everyone else trying to develop their own version of stealth fighter?
Who is saying the stealth is poor?

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WOW! Yes, we need a reason ... I recommend reading "First do no harm" by associate professor of history David Gibbs. I also recommend very recently published, on MSNBC "Why we did it" by Rachel Maddow. Video is available all over the Youtube. And yes, those are the "reasons" ....

 

Wow, again! Just one question for you about Ukraine? Do you know what the word Ukraine means in Russian and Ukrainian language? By the way, those two languages, is actual one language with two different names.

 

 

Try and stay at least remotely close to the topic guys....

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You left out the explanation.

 

You are way off the charts here. The"reminder: SAM = stealth STOP" is just a response to GG Tharos signature that goes "SAM = Speed bump". When put into a proper context, GGTharos as well as my statement about SAM's are correct. One SAM system against 10 airplanes clearly does not stand a chance, so in that case SAM is just a speed bump. Same as, with one airplane against 10 SAM systems (50 or so SAM missiles), the airplane does not stand a chance, therefore SAM = airplane STOP.

 

It takes a 10:1 (or 50:1) ratio.

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And once again DAMNING evidence (not) that the F-22 is not the best dog fighter in the world..

 

WELL NO SH*t

 

It never was intended to be and no one ever said it was.. As has been stated over and over in this thread and MANY others is that if a Raptor gets into a turn and burn fight it has already SCREWED UP immensely... So pointing out that it has lost dogfights in scenarios SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to ensure a dogfight is ridiculous..

 

And the fact that folks continue to post this drivel is annoying beyond compare..

And like Sith asked.. And how many kills did the F-22's get anyway (for their ONE loss)?

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@usar lol.. the assumptions are yours.. i used evidence from history that proved my imperative.. you still keep your assumptions calling them evidence .. my picture looks much clearer..

 

same as with F117, amazing stealth, nobody can touch it, boom, okei maybe its not 100% bullet proof, but F22 IS.. i'm telling you.. for real. why? who da hell knows.. cuz i said so)lol..

 

fact is, no, its far from assured thing.. as i said, if it were so assured, F-22 would be already importing democracy in Moscow and Beijing..

 

 

So I don't think you quite understand yet. Don't worry though, we'll fix that.

 

You asserted that the ability of the F-22 to assert air dominance was not a sure thing. You then also asserted that it most definitely would not have dominance. This is contradictory. You cannot on on hand insist that the issue is moot, and simultaneously pontificate that it is certainly not on favor of the raptor.

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And once again DAMNING evidence (not) that the F-22 is not the best dog fighter in the world..

 

WELL NO SH*t

 

It never was intended to be and no one ever said it was.. As has been stated over and over in this thread and MANY others is that if a Raptor gets into a turn and burn fight it has already SCREWED UP immensely... So pointing out that it has lost dogfights in scenarios SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to ensure a dogfight is ridiculous..

 

And the fact that folks continue to post this drivel is annoying beyond compare..

And like Sith asked.. And how many kills did the F-22's get anyway (for their ONE loss)?

 

Do you really think that the F 22 can hit Su 35 at long distance?

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How many kills did the F-22 get in those exercises?

 

"But the American pilots insisted their planes had gone undefeated against the French during the November exercise — that, in fact, the F-22s had “shot down” Rafales in six one-on-one engagements. Five other simulated battles ended in draws, the Americans said. The U.S. pilots copped to just one loss in the war game — an F-22 defeated by a Mirage 2000 flown by an Emirati aviator."

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Need not worry is a long, long stretch. It seems more like they have a chance to win or lose in a dogfight. The article points out that at least one set of these exercises were 1 on 1 which isn't terribly realistic to begin with.

 

Do you really think that the F 22 can hit Su 35 at long distance?

Why not? If stealth does its job there is certainly a chance.

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As we all know from many sources, the percentage efficiency AMRAAM is not particularly high.Russians already have a radars that can clearly see the "stealth" aircraft."Stealth" does not mean invisible, but litle bit difficult to be detected.Now,at what distances,we cant know that.So I personally think that f 22 is not much bigger advantage over the F15.Plus,Russians preparing something new :D.Here is the link.

 

http://rt.com/news/t50-missile-advanced-guidance-643/


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"But the American pilots insisted their planes had gone undefeated against the French during the November exercise — that, in fact, the F-22s had “shot down” Rafales in six one-on-one engagements. Five other simulated battles ended in draws, the Americans said. The U.S. pilots copped to just one loss in the war game — an F-22 defeated by a Mirage 2000 flown by an Emirati aviator."

 

 

 

And what is the point? Show me the official report, then we have something... other than that its just fish tales... not saying the French are wrong, but I dont have enough info based on this to say anyone is wrong... but regardless... its one or 2 kills... how many did the F-22s rack up... and where they unleashed and run at their full potential... we dont know... pure and simple.

 

Bottom line is that no one said the F-22 is perfect... but with everyone developing similar designs... they have something going on.. dont they?

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In these 1 v 1 WVR exercises the most important aspect is the pilot. The Rafale is no doubt a capable turning jet - but have seen nothing to suggest the F-22 isn't the equal or better than anything in this area as well.

Notice how they were using HUDs as well which was possibly a requirement of the exercise - Stick an F-104 in there with a good pilot he could win against anything with a bit of luck

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And what is the point? Show me the official report, then we have something... other than that its just fish tales... not saying the French are wrong, but I dont have enough info based on this to say anyone is wrong... but regardless... its one or 2 kills... how many did the F-22s rack up... and where they unleashed and run at their full potential... we dont know... pure and simple.

 

Bottom line is that no one said the F-22 is perfect... but with everyone developing similar designs... they have something going on.. dont they?

 

"Draws" is key word.From a new generation of aircraft is expected to show superiority, not "draw".Otherwise, what is the benefit of it?So we are agree now it is not No1 plane in the world,just one of the best?

It is hard to get kill from long distances,,and if he has no chance to do it from close range...???

Stelt planes are good thing,IF you do it right.


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Based on what? Again... you are reading something off a blog on the internet. Only "draw" I see being official here is you "draw"ing conclusions... you dont know any of the circumstances of these "exercises".

 

You ever played sports? Have you ever played a pre-season game? How dos it compare to a playoff game?

 

Point being... there are so many factors in play here, how can you conclude the planes abilities from one instance, and instance with no hard facts behind it?

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