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Giving your Sided Winder Force Feedback 2 Steroids


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Sorted, picked up a Fighter Stick as advised, thanks again Boris, should be here ready for the start of next week with any luck, I have the MSFF stripped down ready :)

 

I am planning on retaining the twist rudder setup somehow tho, I am imagining lots of hot glue or epoxy being needed to make that one work tho !!

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Hey guys! I just found this: http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/ do you think it would be somehow possible to use this device to significantly increase msffb2 resolution while still retaining ffb?

 

You can use Leo's board for input in DCS so yes that increases the input resolution and in DCS you will still have the force feedback working on the MSFFB2. The MSFFB2s actual force feedback will still probably be based on 1024 steps but I don't see that as a very big problem. As I tryed to explain earlier, in DCS the force feedback effects work even if you use another controller for the input. On other games it doesn't work that way.

 

I happen to already have that Leo's board on my pedals so at the moment I am just waiting for connectors to arrive so I can build a nice looking cable between my stick and pedals to try it out.

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That is an amazing coincidence! I will buy you a chocolate bar if you will give us feedback:)

Correct me if I'm wrong, you would have to split output from the pots between msff2 board and Leo's board? or does msff not need input from its pots for ffb? I always thought that joy judges position of stick according to what pots say to precisely output ffb


Edited by hideki2
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Yes it needs to be split and yes MSFFB2 needs the info from the pots for the FFB to work. I made a small test and it seems to be enough that only the center leg of the pot (output) is attached to the Leo's board if the MSFFB2 is powered. The MSFFB2 provides the +5V and GND references. On my test the Leo's board read something around 3500 steps from the pot.

 

What I didn't test is that does the splitting have negative effect to the pot values the MSFFB2 reads. My understanding of electronics says that it shouldn't affect it but then again my understanding isn't very much. So it remains to be seen how it works.

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Yes it needs to be split and yes MSFFB2 needs the info from the pots for the FFB to work. I made a small test and it seems to be enough that only the center leg of the pot (output) is attached to the Leo's board if the MSFFB2 is powered. The MSFFB2 provides the +5V and GND references. On my test the Leo's board read something around 3500 steps from the pot.

 

What I didn't test is that does the splitting have negative effect to the pot values the MSFFB2 reads. My understanding of electronics says that it shouldn't affect it but then again my understanding isn't very much. So it remains to be seen how it works.

 

You can share the pot signal to multiple devices as long as those devices have high impedance inputs, but that's typically how they're configured on a microcontroller. Just make sure you connect the ground between the joystick and the Leo board.

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Rift CV1 / G-seat / modded FFB HOTAS

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I tested it earlier and if I remember correctly you should put the switch between white and grey wires. Sorry, cannot confirm it now as I don't have those wires attached at the moment. The system keeps the power on all the time when the circuit is open. When the circuit is closed it cuts the power. If you want I can test it to confirm the correct wires but it requires a bit of additional work.

 

Here is the wiring diagram for the stick if that helps http://www.simprojects.nl/ms_siderwinder_ff2_hack.htm

 

I am well advanced into my mod now and just about to start the wiring.

 

I have made mine so it retains the rudder, as I love the twist system not having space for pedals.

 

Just had a quick test flight with the sensor board not plugged in and it worked fine, obviously that means the stick is always firm, is there any real reason to go ahead and fit a toggle switch for that circuit ??

 

Really pleased with my mod so far, not quite as tidy as some others but it was always gonna be slightly Frankenstein by virtue of retaining the twist rudder setup. :joystick:

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I would strongly recommend that you add a switch for it unless you want to unplug it when you are done. I posted about this before but one time after I was done using the stick it fell over onto my keyboard tray. The tray broke the sensor so the stick was trying to center itself but since it was extended the motors were not strong enough to center it so they were consently under load. The short end it is I went to bed and woke up to the smell of electrical components burning. What's odd is I after it cooled down everything worked fine. I had to hone out one of the plastic gears that melted a little. It was kind of a freak thing that happen to me but if you remove that switch make sure you at least unplug the power supply when you're done using the stick.


Edited by Whiplash

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"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the street and then getting hit by an airplane."

Dogs of War Dedicated WWII Server Thread

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok now I have split the MSFFB2 potentiometers to the Leo Bodnar board I have and also I've had some freetime to do a bit of testing too. The 12-bit Bodnar board reads around 3460 steps on the stick's movement range which I think is very good. As I used the Bodnar board which is in my pedals I have quite a long cable between the stick and the pedals and there is also two 9-pin D-connectors there. Well it wasn't optimal way of doing it since the long cable and connectors add quite a bit of interference to the signal. It shows up as a constant jitter on the controller output. The jitter is usually within 6 steps so not very much considering the range. The jitter was reduced to 1 step when I tried to set the Bodnar board inside the stick box and only 20cm wire between the pot and the circuit board.

 

So what I did was that I soldered an additional wire to the potentiometers center leg and routed that to the input pin on the Bodnar board. As KLR Rico suggested that I should ground the circuit boards I also connected the ground pin of the Bodnar board to the potentiometers ground pin on the X axis. I think that should ground the circuit boards together but frankly I am not exactly sure.

 

The jitter doesn't really affect flying very much. A small vibration can be seen in the virtual stick. Main reason for me to do this mod was to get rid of the deadzone in the controls and I have to say that it feels very much better. I think it is much closer to real aircraft controls where you can fly the aircraft with very small and accurate inputs near the center of the stick. At the moment biggest problem with my stick is that I desperately need more force.

 

At the moment I am happy with the solution of having the Bodnar board on my pedals but probably on later stage of my project I will buy another 12-bit board (Teensy, Bodnar or something else) and have it inside the stick box.

 

Today I finally received the 1ohm resistors I had ordered for the additional force. Guess what, I had ordered the very tiny size resistors even I tried to be very careful to order the correct size. Well, I ordered new ones today but probably have to wait again three weeks before I get them. So I think now its time to fly while waiting.

 

 

Where should I send chocolate bar?

 

I'll send you a PM next time I'm coming to Denmark and come pick it up :) .

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I'll send you a PM next time I'm coming to Denmark and come pick it up :) .

 

You are very much welcome to do that.

 

About MSFFB2 Exactly! I would like to get rid of dead zone too. I'm just afraid that one day ED can remove piece of code that enables devices to share FFB signal, and than all mods will be just waste of time and cash.

 

Ps. Screw this, BodnarsBoard ordered!


Edited by hideki2
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  • 3 weeks later...
and to remove the broken plastic tube,

I have to cut these wires and push it out from inside

using a 13/14mm rod

right ?

 

I guess I'm not really clear on what your goal is here, are you trying to extend your stick or just repair it?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"Adulthood is like looking both ways before you cross the street and then getting hit by an airplane."

Dogs of War Dedicated WWII Server Thread

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Repair.

Stick will only be an inch higher.

I've found how to remove motors plate (didnt see the screw deep in each white plastic leg :music_whistling:).

Than simply dremel the broken stick base , drill a 12mm

hole and use a 12 mm alu tube.

Thanks

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  • 5 years later...

Rather then increasing FFB power, I want to reduce it.

Since I do not have SMD resistors lying around, I hope to just remove a few resistors

Therefor I would need to know if R8//R5, R14//R15, R86//R87, R90//R92 are connected to each other in parallel...

 

Any help?

 

Thank you, Tim

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Rather then increasing FFB power, I want to reduce it.

FFB Settings in controls setup?

| VR goggles | Autopilot panel | Headtracker | TM HOTAS | G920 HOTAS | MS FFB 2 | Throttle Quadrants | 8600K | GTX 1080 | 64GB RAM| Win 10 x64 | Voicerecognition | 50" UHD TV monitor | 40" 1080p TV monitor | 2x 24" 1080p side monitors | 24" 1080p touchscreen |

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Rather then increasing FFB power, I want to reduce it.

Since I do not have SMD resistors lying around, I hope to just remove a few resistors

Therefor I would need to know if R8//R5, R14//R15, R86//R87, R90//R92 are connected to each other in parallel...

 

Any help?

 

Thank you, Tim

 

I'm curious as to why, since you can always decrease force in software, but not increase it.

i7 6700k @ 4.6, Gigabyte Z170X-UD3, 32GB DDR4 2666, GTX 1070, Rift S | MS Sidewinder FFB2 w/ TM F-22 Pro Grip, TM TWCS Throttle, VKB T-Rudder Mk. IV

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Im wondering. Since all the board hacks seems a bit daunting (i already have 1 extra resistor on) would it be possible to boost the current trough some sort of voltage/amp booster and just use the signals to new motors? Or would 3 resistor be fine with cooling?

 

If not then ill try the full mod.

 

Most of this stuff i can get but im not sure on the ceramic filters.

 

"I added 1 ceramic filter capacitor next to main supply electrolytic capacitor"

Would this just connect at the same place? I mean combine them?


Edited by trigen

1080 ti, i7700k 5ghz, 16gb 3600 cl14 ddr4 oc

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Epic thread!

 

 

With regards to investing in the base item I am wondering if there is any difference in the pots, engines, other components or programming of the X05-92622 and X05-63778 part number FFB2s.

Someone trying to sell a 63 told me that the 92's were of lower quality. Is there any truth in this at all?

Edit: It looks like there is also the red trigger X08-58763 version.


Edited by Flows
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