How thick should the wood be?

[guitarxe]

Hi,

 

I want to build a simple stand for my joystick. It'll slide under my computer table, and the joystick will slide out on drawer slides. You can see a sketch I did on the images attached. The dimensions shown is what I measured that I will need, but now I just need to know how thick should the wood be?

 

I want to make sure the construction ends up solid and steady. If it's not too much to ask, would someone experienced with wood work mind taking a look and see if this is 1) feasible at all, and 2) how thick should the wood be?

 

(Just to be clear, that's not the computer table with the slide under it. It's the whole stand that will go under the computer table).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tricky11]

Ok here are a few questions for you.

Why do you want to have your joystick on slides?

What sort of wood are you thinking of using because that will have a big difference in strength.

Do the slides lock when slid out to maximum extension as this may be a issue.

What sort of joystick do you have?

[lunaticfringe]

Speaking from experience, stay away from rails. Ask yourself how often you will be using that specific station for simming, and if it is the primary role, make the mounting station permanent. If not, devise a pedestal device such as those that have been constructed for the Warthog or similar.

 

You can get away in hardwoods beginning at 3/4s if constructing from lumber with the correct fastening methods.

[Thick8]

3/4 inch MDF would work. Make sure you drill the screw holes before installing the screws. fill the holes with wood glue (us a paperclip to push out the air bubbles) before you install the screw as it will keep the screws from wallowing out. Some slides have a lip on the bottom for the wood to rest on. I used this method some years ago on a work/gaming desk. I used the desk for a couple of years and only replaced it when I moved to a house with more room.

John

[metalnwood]

I agreee, 18mm - 3/4" mdf, pre drilled will be OK for that size table, bit will want some additional bracing on the back of it though.

[guitarxe]

Ok here are a few questions for you.

Why do you want to have your joystick on slides?

What sort of wood are you thinking of using because that will have a big difference in strength.

Do the slides lock when slid out to maximum extension as this may be a issue.

What sort of joystick do you have?

 

Slides because I don't know what position will be comfortable, further or closer to my body.

 

What wood? Any that can be bought at Home Depot or similar ;)

 

These are just regular drawer slides, so they do stop when pulled out to the maximum, but I don't think they lock in any way. For that, I intended to semi-permanently lock it into place once I found a comfortable position with something that I can easily remove when I want to adjust the length again.

 

The joystick is the Saitek X52 Pro. The base of it is 180mm in width. The rubber sticky feet stick out an additional 50mm on the sides, so I figured the panel on which it will sit must not be any less than 200mm.

 

 

Speaking from experience, stay away from rails. Ask yourself how often you will be using that specific station for simming, and if it is the primary role, make the mounting station permanent. If not, devise a pedestal device such as those that have been constructed for the Warthog or similar.

 

What is your experience with rails? Do you find them wobbly and unsteady? They move back and forth all the time? Have you found no way to lock the rails in place?

 

I've actually searched for a way to make a pedestal before I ended up with this stand. In fact this was supposed to be a pedestal when I started on it, but because of how wide the mounting panel for the joystick stand will have to be, and how long (I want it to be closer to my body), it seems to me the pedestal will just topple over.

 

From what I've seen other people do, it's either some how attached to the chair (sometimes even a piece of the chair is cut out between the legs to make room for it), or it's some kind of mounting on the floor with the extended TM Warthog stick.

 

I don't have a Warthog stick nor do I want to mutilate my office chair that I sit on, so I figured the best way is to have something standing in front of me, with a panel that extends from it and goes above my knees for the joystick to sit on.

 

I'll take a look at the 3/4" MDF, although that seems a lot thinner than I expected haha. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Supersheep]

While I can't add to the discussion itself, you can try a cardboard mockup for size, if you haven't already. It's usually easy to aquire, can be hacked together in a couple of minutes and saves you bolting down and immobilizing the slides (which would be a waste).

[metalnwood]

 

I'll take a look at the 3/4" MDF, although that seems a lot thinner than I expected haha. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

What you are making is fairly small so with a bit if bracing behind it will be fine.

 

Think of almost all flat pack furniture, it's all made from 3/4" sheet and a lot of it is either mdf particle board at it's core.

[ajax]

I wouldn't recommend mdf -- it doesn't take regular screws well, the edges don't take paint or other finish well, and if it gets wet (spilt beer) it will start to fall apart. Solid wood is the way to go.

 

You only have an 8 inch span, so you can get by with something fairly thin, 1/2 inch or so.

 

You didn't say if appearance is important or not. Home Desperate has spf (spruce, pine, fir), select pine, red oak, and poplar (in my locale). If painted, use poplar. Natural finish, use oak. I don't think they offer thin stock of these, so just use 3/4 inch.

 

I'd also think about making your own slides out of wood. Drawer slides are not cheap (for good ones, that is).

[metalnwood]

ajax, the entire thing is being made to go under the desk, it isn't just the slide he wants to make to put on his desk.

 

MDF will paint fine, if you want to paint it. It's best to seal the edges and for a diy guy the easiest way is to put glue on the edges first. Only takes a few minutes then you can paint after it is dry. As mentioned you need to pre drill the sides when screwing in to MDF.

 

MDF will take some moisture but it will not take sustained and repeated moisture without swelling. I have mdc stuff I have made for years lying around and it is fine, I suspect a lot of us pit builders do as well.

 

Thats why it is strange that it is so popular for the core of kitchen and bathroom cabinets as it shouldn't really be used in such wet areas but it is strong enough for the job.

[ajax]

Ahh. I misread his post.

 

The faces of MDF do paint beautifully. But the edges IMO should be trimmed with wood strips before painting (or hidden in a rabbit/rebate). They can be filled as you say, but I don't think it's worth the extra work.

 

The top has a 30" span and it will sag with 3/4" MDF unless he supports it with solid trim (wood or metal) on the front and back edges. (There are other ways, of course -- corner blocks up underneath, for example.)

 

I don't see anything to keep it from racking side-to-side, either. A simple 1/4" panel on the back will solve that. (Alternately, small plywood gussets at the top back corners will work -- or the corner blocks mentioned earlier.)

 

I still don't like MDF for anything structural. Even using pilot holes, regular screws do not hold well in MDF. (There are special screws for MDF but the you are taking a chance that your local big-box store will have them.)

[metalnwood]

While we are debating the pro's cons of MDF, however you make it, using ply or other sheet goods it does seem like a lot of work to do nothing other than be able to mount a slide for your joystick.

 

I would suggest you go and get a piece of timber the 200mm width that you need and a quick release clamp and just clamp that to the bottom of your desk so it protrudes out the front.

 

Yes, you would have to do it every time but it only takes a few seconds and how many times would you have to do it before it consumes more time than building what you are suggesting?

 

Anyway, might be a good ides just to see if you like it there anyway.

 

Re the MDF debate :) mdf should only be used with screws in the side of the panel if glue is used as well. You dont want a screw taking all of the load. These days I just use nail guns with MDF to hold the glueups together.

 

Filling the sides of the mdf is as easy as running a bead of glue down the edge. It will take more than one coat to make it look smooth, depending on the paint but then again, if you are after a good paint job it will take more than one coat regardless. MDF can be used for this purpose fine, you just have to know how MDF can fail and avoid constructions to promote that.

 

Having said that, I would take a nice piece of ply over MDF any day but it's 2-3 times the price.

[ajax]

I would suggest you go and get a piece of timber the 200mm width that you need and a quick release clamp and just clamp that to the bottom of your desk so it protrudes out the front.

This ^^^:thumbup:

[hannibal]

MDF + humidity = rebuild in 3-4 years.. sorry MDF sucks unless you know u the pit is in a cool dry place.

[lunaticfringe]

What is your experience with rails? Do you find them wobbly and unsteady? They move back and forth all the time? Have you found no way to lock the rails in place?

 

Yes, yes, only temporarily. All of the force you're applying to the stick as leverage will work its way to the rail. Based on the illustration you've provided, when you're maneuvering in the y-axis, that force is going to work against the design of the rail's guide wheels and track, pushing them up and down relative to the desk- the direction that they are not designed to go in. Too much exertion over time, and you start warping the rails.

 

I've actually searched for a way to make a pedestal before I ended up with this stand. In fact this was supposed to be a pedestal when I started on it, but because of how wide the mounting panel for the joystick stand will have to be, and how long (I want it to be closer to my body), it seems to me the pedestal will just topple over.

 

Not with 30-50lbs of ballast.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=121049

 

As to the quick-release clamp, I've got to disagree. First time you accidentally hit the release, you'll know why. For temporary stuff, depending on how you feel about the desk itself, I'd consider installing studs along the length of the stick stand's path, same as you were going to drill holes for the rails. Drill matching holes in the stand, and install with wingnuts and washers. This gives you the ability to pull at any time, and braces your stick as a solid fixture, allowing for load to be borne by the whole of the tabletop panel itself along that path, rather than just the immediate screw points for the rails.

[Fri13]

ajax, the entire thing is being made to go under the desk, it isn't just the slide he wants to make to put on his desk.

 

MDF will paint fine, if you want to paint it. It's best to seal the edges and for a diy guy the easiest way is to put glue on the edges first. Only takes a few minutes then you can paint after it is dry. As mentioned you need to pre drill the sides when screwing in to MDF.

 

MDF will take some moisture but it will not take sustained and repeated moisture without swelling. I have mdc stuff I have made for years lying around and it is fine, I suspect a lot of us pit builders do as well.

 

Thats why it is strange that it is so popular for the core of kitchen and bathroom cabinets as it shouldn't really be used in such wet areas but it is strong enough for the job.

MDF is dirty cheap and corporations know there are accidents what cause a changes to be made. Then when it is cheap, people easily order a new style when fashion changes.

 

MDF is on of the worst things happened to consumers but been a miracle to fashion and producers.

 

Making a own large plank from smaller ones isn't difficult, just take a couple hours more effort to finish surface after gluing has dried 8-12 hours, so even covering large areas isn't problem if people just have proper tools/space and time.

[Mr_Burns]

MDF is dirty cheap and corporations know there are accidents what cause a changes to be made. Then when it is cheap, people easily order a new style when fashion changes.

 

MDF is on of the worst things happened to consumers but been a miracle to fashion and producers.

 

Making a own large plank from smaller ones isn't difficult, just take a couple hours more effort to finish surface after gluing has dried 8-12 hours, so even covering large areas isn't problem if people just have proper tools/space and time.

 

Have you been sniffing wood glue??

 

Your not talking to master carpenters here buddy so you are not in the main talking to people with access to proper tools space and time.

 

Some of us want to make accessories with the tools and material available, MDF is fine, stop your MDF bagging you anti MDF bagger :mad:

[metalnwood]

MDF is dirty cheap and corporations know there are accidents what cause a changes to be made. Then when it is cheap, people easily order a new style when fashion changes.

 

MDF is on of the worst things happened to consumers but been a miracle to fashion and producers.

 

Making a own large plank from smaller ones isn't difficult, just take a couple hours more effort to finish surface after gluing has dried 8-12 hours, so even covering large areas isn't problem if people just have proper tools/space and time.

 

 

I agree, MDF is bad because it gets used badly in places where it shouldn't for no other reason than cost savings.

 

Other than that, it has it's place and can do a good job. It's like so many things in engineering, there is usually something better with better properties you can use but that has to be weighed up with costs and where a cheaper material meets the needs of a product then there isn't really an issue.

 

MDF gets used where it shouldn't and there is no defending that. If a smart consumer knows this and is happy to save some money knowing this then that is fine but most of the time they don't know this and wonder why their bathroom vanity is expanding.

 

I would often choose to not use MDF and in it's place use a marine grade ply because I need clean edges. Otherwise MDF is fine. Sorry, I don't believe in the theory that MDF should never be used because there are better ways. It's only better if it does a better job and that really depends on what the job it is doing is.

 

Given what the OP is asking I take his level of expertise below what is required to take boards and joint them to make a glue up. Sheet goods are your goto for your diy here, imho.

[Mr_Burns]

The other thing you could look at is attaching the base to your chair.

 

I saw someone else on here had the removeable joystick base somehow attached to their office (gaming chair).

 

I made a pedestal (out of MDF) for a previous pit:

 

 

It didnt work cos it was free standing so it wobbled all over, that would be the problem with slides but look at this thread:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=67951&page=12

 

Cub Pilots done throttle on a drawer slide and some nice joystic attachment to chairs.

[Devon Custard]

Lol,

 

Basically youre getting responses from every end of the DIY spectrum starting with the MacGyver (this is going to get me out of a fix and save my life) thru to the A-Team (damn it i want to build a tank from a bathtub and a few nails, shoot people but not actually kill them ) to the wise old craftsmans approach (yeah i can build this, but id rather debate the tensile strength and durability of the materials for a month before i actually do anything).

 

Go read my post about how to engrave and quail in terror as the experts proceed to baffle the hell out of you :)

 

Whatever you do, if youre not 100% certain, dont do anything permanent you cant live with if it goes to hell. Trial and error is a tried and tested path from novice to journeyman to master. dont be afraid to try several things.

 

:) This was probably no help whatsoever but im in one of those whimsical moods today....

[guitarxe]

While I can't add to the discussion itself, you can try a cardboard mockup for size, if you haven't already. It's usually easy to aquire, can be hacked together in a couple of minutes and saves you bolting down and immobilizing the slides (which would be a waste).

 

Great idea! I will definitely try this out of carboard before I finalize all the dimensions.

 

You didn't say if appearance is important or not

 

The appearance does not matter to me. I do not intend to make any kind of finish on the thing. Maybe if I end up with sharp edges I'll have to sand that down so my cats don't cut themselves when they inevitably end up rubbing themselves all over the thing.

 

You will want some additional bracing on the back of it.

 

Yeah, I forgot to add that to my sketches. I was just going to add a piece like this on the back:

 

 

Clamp it to your desk

 

The reason why I don't want to attach anything to my desk and am instead wanting to build a small stand is because my desk is too high. Even if I clamped a board underneath the top part of the desk, I would end up with my wrist at about neck height when on the joystick, unless I raise up my seat - in which case my monitor will now be too low, and the pedals will be uncomfortable to control (They are propped up against the wall. If I raise the seat, I cannot reach them back there and have to move them out closer to my chair, and I'd have to find a way to keep them in place without sliding around on the floor).

 

All of the force you're applying to the stick as leverage will work its way to the rail. Based on the illustration you've provided, when you're maneuvering in the y-axis, that force is going to work against the design of the rail's guide wheels and track, pushing them up and down relative to the desk- the direction that they are not designed to go in. Too much exertion over time, and you start warping the rails.

 

Yikes! I didn't think this could happen. Those rails I intend to purchase are pretty thick and solid, and they are pretty cheap, too. I might just use them for now and if they become a problem replace them with some brackets.

 

Using glue on the MDF

 

What's this talk about using glue with screws? I figured I would just use angle brackets and screws to attach the pieces together, something like this:

 

 

Although, with only 3/4" thickness I would need some really tiny screws not to go right through it. Or maybe I should? And then just fasten it from the other side with a nut? Although then I'd end up with screws sticking out and would probably scratch myself on them eventually.

 

The MDF debate

 

It's nice to see people passionate about their hobbies (or professions?), but I didn't really mean to elicit such a heated debate, haha, sorry! :)

[lunaticfringe]

There are a dozen ways to skin a cat; it all depends on how clean you want it to be, and the quality you want it to be left in when complete.

 

Now, given that you don't like the height, I'm not sure if the drop of a few inches (thickness of the desktop and the minor shift down based on the offset from that to the top of the sliding tray) is going to make this any more comfortable for you. Thus, I would redirect your attention to the ballasted pedestal linked in my last response. This would allow you to find the sweet spot based on your chair and sitting arrangement, independent of the desk itself.