DCS WWII: 1944 FAQ Discussion

[OverDhill]

I can't believe that anyone that anyone that pledged one dollar is going to complain that they are only getting one plane. What is this world coming to. I guess those that do complain are going to try and fly it with their keyboards because a good HOTAS costs $$$$$.

[LukeFF]

I pledged the project knowing that Ilya was not a person worth trusting because I believed ED will, as usual, fulfill its promise. But the final solution is very very disappointing. Besides the delayed delivery, the rewards are also dramatically shrunk. I don't think I'll invest any more on your products from now on.

 

You shouldn't have pledged towards the project if you felt that Ilya wasn't someone you could trust.

[klem]

Not sure if this is the best place to post or even if it will be seen by anyone relevant but I am not entirely happy with the backer reward revisions. I'm a bit late to the party because I have been away for weeks and still will be until month end, meantime Spithsawn has closed the main thread.

 

My objection really boils down to one fine point. At over $100 I was entitled to all aircraft and although I received the P51D key I told Ilya I didn't need it as I had already bought it from ED. I was told I could swap it for some other reward but I am more than happy to let that go. I didn't really care what happens to the key which I haven't and won't use.

 

Now I am only to be allowed five aircraft but ED have decided that my earl-issue, unused, P51D key will be counted as one of these even though I didn't want it. In effect I have been denied one of the other aircraft because I have been given a key I didn't want and was told I could change for some other reward. I don't care about 'some other reward', I just want to be given the five aircraft excluding the P51D which I have already bought which would in effect give me all aircraft including the one I have bought.

[NineLine]

I understand your frustration.. I did comment that those that were lucky enough to get the P-51 key are not not so lucky to have gotten the P-51 key. That said, its a little sticky because that was on Ilya, and now ED is trying to patch it up best they can... I wish I could say something to make you feel better about it, but there probably isnt much that can be said. I personally didnt have anything to do with RRG, but at the same time I am sorry for all these troubles as well... for what its worth.

 

Not sure if this is the best place to post or even if it will be seen by anyone relevant but I am not entirely happy with the backer reward revisions. I'm a bit late to the party because I have been away for weeks and still will be until month end, meantime Spithsawn has closed the main thread.

 

My objection really boils down to one fine point. At over $100 I was entitled to all aircraft and although I received the P51D key I told Ilya I didn't need it as I had already bought it from ED. I was told I could swap it for some other reward but I am more than happy to let that go. I didn't really care what happens to the key which I haven't and won't use.

 

Now I am only to be allowed five aircraft but ED have decided that my earl-issue, unused, P51D key will be counted as one of these even though I didn't want it. In effect I have been denied one of the other aircraft because I have been given a key I didn't want and was told I could change for some other reward. I don't care about 'some other reward', I just want to be given the five aircraft excluding the P51D which I have already bought which would in effect give me all aircraft including the one I have bought.

[klem]

I understand your frustration.. I did comment that those that were lucky enough to get the P-51 key are not not so lucky to have gotten the P-51 key. That said, its a little sticky because that was on Ilya, and now ED is trying to patch it up best they can... I wish I could say something to make you feel better about it, but there probably isnt much that can be said. I personally didnt have anything to do with RRG, but at the same time I am sorry for all these troubles as well... for what its worth.

 

Much as I respect you SiThSpAwN, surely it can't be that difficult for ED to make a simple adjustment? I could send them the key so they can block it or they could just take the word of a mature existing customer that I won't use it. It's of no use to me so I only get 4 planes for my $100+. The annoying thing is it will cost ED nothing to put this right. The reward of the Alpha FW190 seems to have disappeared to!

[NineLine]

You can try submitting a ticket, I cant suggest anything else really... the transaction of your P-51 key was an RRG deal though, so I dont know that they can do much. I know it sounds easy to fix, but it would just be a bigger mess if they tried adjusting for individuals...

 

As for the Alpha on the 190, I think as things have been a mess with them trying to take over and clean up the mess left to them time has simply run out on any sort of Alpha.

[ishtmail]

Yeah, you can post a ticket. ED has full capability of checking whether you ever used your key (remember, every module needs to be activated online before first use, and ED has those records). So if you have a key that you never used, I'm sure ED can take the key away from your account and block it, and grant you the open reward system like everyone else.

 

ED has been VERY accomodating and has changed the backer rewards considerably to make things right for the backers, so if you ask nicely and politely, hopefully they will oblige.

[klem]

You can try submitting a ticket, I cant suggest anything else really... the transaction of your P-51 key was an RRG deal though, so I dont know that they can do much. I know it sounds easy to fix, but it would just be a bigger mess if they tried adjusting for individuals...

 

As for the Alpha on the 190, I think as things have been a mess with them trying to take over and clean up the mess left to them time has simply run out on any sort of Alpha.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I have opened a Ticket.

[Phantom453]

Hey Sith, noting this comment from Groove in the July update #2:

 

"It will take us some time to re-design the personal backers page, but we are on it."

 

I'm just wondering if there is some way of articulating which aircraft we would like? The reason being that with the Dora release being less than a month away (5 Aug 14) I would like to have it when it is released, but if I can't advise ED which five aircraft I want, how do I get a key for the Dora? Thanks.

 

Thought I would bump this. Less than two weeks to the advised release of the Dora.

 

I just checked the Backer's Reward page and got "Backers page is under upgrade. Please come back later."

 

So I'm wondering how those backers who pledged > $120 indicate what planes they want, and in particular whether they want the Dora or not?

[NineLine]

The goal is to have the new site up before the Dora is out, that is all the news I have right now.

[taxman1]

The goal is to have the new site up before the Dora is out, that is all the news I have right now.

 

Thanks, that also answers any questions on the Backers site that I have for now:smilewink:

[komemiute]

Thanks, that also answers any questions on the Backers site that I have for now:smilewink:

 

For me too. Good on'ya.

[Kotolom]

Just found out about all this by randomly checking the Kickstarter comments because I was wondering what happened to the project. Still reading up on what happened, but I'm not happy about this situation at all.

 

a) Why wasn't there an e-mail send to kickstarter backers to inform them of all these changes?

 

b) I think it's very disappointing that ED thinks it's OK to take over all the assets that has been created with the kickstarter money and continue the project that was supposedly a joint venture from the beginning, but not feel responsible to honor the rewards that were sold in exchange for that money.

If they took over a worthwhile project, then it should be no big deal to refund backers, since most backers would use their refund to buy DCS modules or the final DCS WW2 release anyway.

 

Taking over the project and telling the backers to just accept the reduced rewards with no refund option leaves a very bitter aftertaste. I would have loved to use the refund to buy Mig-21 or F86-Sabre and then decide if I want to buy DCS WW2 when it releases.

By cutting the rewards you're not enticing me to buy the DCS WW2 planes I'm now not getting after release. You're doing the exact opposite.

[NineLine]

A) All the needed info is here

 

B) The dont have the money for a refund s stated in the FAQ

[rubblebeam]

Just found out about all this by randomly checking the Kickstarter comments because I was wondering what happened to the project. Still reading up on what happened, but I'm not happy about this situation at all.

 

a) Why wasn't there an e-mail send to kickstarter backers to inform them of all these changes?

 

b) I think it's very disappointing that ED thinks it's OK to take over all the assets that has been created with the kickstarter money and continue the project that was supposedly a joint venture from the beginning, but not feel responsible to honor the rewards that were sold in exchange for that money.

If they took over a worthwhile project, then it should be no big deal to refund backers, since most backers would use their refund to buy DCS modules or the final DCS WW2 release anyway.

 

Taking over the project and telling the backers to just accept the reduced rewards with no refund option leaves a very bitter aftertaste. I would have loved to use the refund to buy Mig-21 or F86-Sabre and then decide if I want to buy DCS WW2 when it releases.

By cutting the rewards you're not enticing me to buy the DCS WW2 planes I'm now not getting after release. You're doing the exact opposite.

 

I understand your grievance I really do. I felt exactly the same as you do. However the bigger picture is some folk have lost their jobs over the whole mess. We as backers have lost very little in comparison. A few virtual airplanes, manuals etc. But we go back to work on Monday (3 day weekend for me woohoo). I'm not going to tell you to shut up and accept it. Just saying there is a forest behind all the trees

[Kotolom]

Expecting backers to read these forums instead of being open and telling them through the usual communication channels of a KS project that there have been massive changes is what makes me most mad about this.

This has all happened weeks ago, but I bet the majority of backers don't even know about it.

 

I think ED is hurting their sales a lot by not fulfilling the rewards. Do they expect the people who now only get 2 planes to actually buy the other planes after release?

ED's primary asset is their good reputation. Giving a few backers a refund or simply giving them all the planes they paid for is a small investment for in return getting a lot of good will and a WW2 project that would massively increase the appeal of DCS by opening the target market to WW2 enthusiasts who otherwise have little interest in modern planes.

 

People backed this despite Ilya's history. They backed it primarily because Eagle Dynamics was behind this and supposedly in a joint venture or partnership with RRG Studios.

[NineLine]

From what I understand they dont have control of the KS page, and cannot use that to communicate with anyone.

 

I only get 2 aircraft, I plan on buying all the others... I imagine there are many more that will do this as well.

[Dalminar]

They should start a new Kickstarter project called DCS WWII Refund to raise money to refund those who want a refund.

[MACADEMIC]

Thanks Sith for these FAQs. Just one thing for clarification. The Kickstarter wasn't initated by RRG, but by Ilya Shevchenko in person. He, and he alone, entered into a contract with each and every backer he took money from.

 

As I see it, this contract is still valid, although it has been broken by Shevchenko both in content and spirit. Eagle Dynamics has no legal party status, unless a contract between them and Shevchenko exists where they have assumed legal responsiblity.

 

It is therefore up to each backer to either accept ED's offer and go with it, or ask Shevchenko for a refund, in absence of him to ask the local representative for the law in public service to enforce this by legal means (i.e. state prosecutor, see examplary case .) Such things are well covered in the Consumer Protection Act in the US, for example.

 

Personally I'll accept ED's offer, although I believe ED would owe us a better explanation as to what has really happened with the funding. If it's true they have taken over all assets and the money was exclusively spent on generating these they should be in a comfortable position to make reimbursements, it would actually significantly improve their revenue outlook on these products.

 

MAC

[NineLine]

Personally I'll accept ED's offer, although I believe ED would owe us a better explanation as to what has really happened with the funding. If it's true they have taken over all assets and the money was exclusively spent on generating these they should be in a comfortable position to make reimbursements, it would actually significantly improve their revenue outlook on these products.

 

MAC

 

 

That is a little foggy on my end, as far as assets go, and I dont know if ED feels comfortable explaining all that in detail, as I dont know the legal end of it. I am worried that some assets didnt transfer... but that is a personal worry, and not based on info I have.

 

What we do know says that there wasnt really much in the way of assets... seems like there was some models in place, FM for the 109 is/was footed by ED, so I dont know that the KS funds went towards that part of the 109 at all... again, lts pretty foggy, and unfortunately I think its a little foggy for ED as well...

 

I can try asking Wags on the assets and if it can be communicated to the backers what was actually done... but I am not sure I am going to get an answer on that. Some of that is gonna be out of their comfort zone... and they are already pretty outside of it as it is...

[NineLine]

As I thought, most of these details are restricted by the confidentiality agreements signed... so I dont know think we are going to get the nitty gritty details.

 

If it's true they have taken over all assets and the money was exclusively spent on generating these they should be in a comfortable position to make reimbursements

 

As for being in a comfortable position to make reimbursements, I am not sure I get your reasoning. The cost of producing assets for the sim dont equal money in your account. Specially when those assets are far from completed products. So I dont know how we can assume the would be in a comfortable position to reimburse anything. Maybe you mean they could sell off the assets to reimburse everyone? If you do, that would for sure scrap the entire project... maybe I misunderstood you... sorry if I did.

[MACADEMIC]

As I thought, most of these details are restricted by the confidentiality agreements signed... so I dont know think we are going to get the nitty gritty details.

 

 

 

As for being in a comfortable position to make reimbursements, I am not sure I get your reasoning. The cost of producing assets for the sim dont equal money in your account. Specially when those assets are far from completed products. So I dont know how we can assume the would be in a comfortable position to reimburse anything. Maybe you mean they could sell off the assets to reimburse everyone? If you do, that would for sure scrap the entire project... maybe I misunderstood you... sorry if I did.

 

Well, about the money spent on assets, I was just referring to what Wags had said himself in his initial post on the topic of ED taking over, which was that all the Kickstarter funds were spent on the creation of content. With this in mind, as long as these assets are now with ED, it would have amounted to an interest free loan from the backers, which could have been repaid. The money for content creation would have had to be coming from somewhere one way or another.

 

So as long as ED believe they're on the way to creating a viable product, they might, as in other cases, find alternative ways to finance this part amount - 150k aren't a lot in the scope of things.

 

But things may be different from how they appear, and as you say we'll probably not hear about them in greater detail.

 

MAC

[NineLine]

It would be a guess... and only a guess based on my own opinions and by no means anything ED has told me... but I would guess ED didnt get the equivalent of the KS funds in art assets....

 

Well, about the money spent on assets, I was just referring to what Wags had said himself in his initial post on the topic of ED taking over, which was that all the Kickstarter funds were spent on the creation of content. With this in mind, as long as these assets are now with ED, it would have amounted to an interest free loan from the backers, which could have been repaid. The money for content creation would have had to be coming from somewhere one way or another.

 

So as long as ED believe they're on the way to creating a viable product, they might, as in other cases, find alternative ways to finance this part amount - 150k aren't a lot in the scope of things.

 

But things may be different from how they appear, and as you say we'll probably not hear about them in greater detail.

 

MAC

[MACADEMIC]

Would make sense, and quoting the great Frank Abagnale Jr., I concur.

 

MAC

[deangardiner]

I am late to the party :)

 

It occurred to me today that I had not received a Kickstarter email update for a while, so I checked the forum to find I missed all the fun.

 

To be honest I always expected the Kickstarter to fail, but I still donated $122. Just like I bought COD when it was released, and every other serious WW2 flight sim ever created. The fact is that if we don't even try to support these efforts then we can't blame developers for not making anything new. I did not back RRG, or Ilya, or even ED, I backed the idea that the community still wants software companies to continue to develop historical flight sims. If the Kickstarter had failed I wasn't sure we would see another decent WW2 flight sim for a decade.

 

So personally I am glad to hear that ED have picked up the ball. At least the project may eventually see the light of day, and surely that is the most important thing.

 

Thanks,

Dean

Edited August 8, 2014 by deangardiner