[CLOSED] F-15C Long Sustained Supercruise

[H-var]

I was able to perform a sustained supercruise on the F-15C without losing any speed, which is ridiculous. To be honest, the whole F-15C "PFM" is a not very realistic, to be honest, but I cannot describe all the problems in this particular bug report. Nevertheless, F-15C PFM was a good effort - we all have to start somewhere.

client-20140722-154142.rar

Edited July 22, 2014 by H-var

[Exorcet]

What's wrong with supercruise? I'm pretty sure even the F-15 velocity chart in the manual shows supercruise is possible with a clean fighter. Mach 1 isn't a magic barrier, while the F-15 can't supercruise fully loaded, there's nothing stopping it for doing so when it's slick and low weight.

[Koekemoeroetoe]

At least explain what is wrong with the PFM according to you. Calling the current PFM a joke, without explaining why, doesn't help making it better, but quite frankly only makes you look like an ass... Describe whats wrong => devs can change it if necessary.

 

On the super cruise thing; if what your saying is true, than it's indeed a bug I guess, at least for as far as I know, the F15 is not able to perform super cruise, right?

[H-var]

Koekemoeroetoe, I sense an F-15 fanboy, but I'll explain it to you. I cannot report the other problems with my experience on F-15C because I am not an F-15C expert. The problems which I encountered fall into category "arguable". For example, Rudder in F-15 is useless. The Y-axis rotation degree of the plane with the use of the rudder is close to zero. This is how I experienced it. Please, read again the text in bold before considering to reply to this message.

[Exorcet]

On the super cruise thing; if what your saying is true, than it's indeed a bug I guess, at least for as far as I know, the F15 is not able to perform super cruise, right?

The manual has a section that compares the F-15 PFM to real F-15 flight charts. I don't have the manual available to me right now, but if I recall, both the PFM and real F-15 supercruise at altitude in clean configuration.

[Koekemoeroetoe]

Koekemoeroetoe, I sense an F-15 fanboy, but I'll explain it to you. I cannot report the other problems with my experience on F-15C because I am not an F-15C expert. The problems which I encountered fall into category "arguable". For example, Rudder in F-15 is useless. The Y-axis rotation degree of the plane with the use of the rudder is close to zero. This is how I experienced it. Please, read again the text in bold before considering to reply to this message.

 

I think your senses told you wrong, I'm more of a KA-50 kind of guy... However, that's not the point of this. The thing is, eventhough you're not an F-15C expert (neither am I, just take a look at my first post and Excorcet's answer to it as a proof), if you feel like something is incorrect on the PFM, explain what you think is wrong, maybe you're right and things can get patched. That way the remarks you're giving can be used to make an already awesome simulator even more awesome...

 

And by the way, you contradict yourself by first saying the PFM is a joke, and later on saying you're no F-15C expert. How would someone who's not an F-15C expert be able to judge an F-15C PFM?

[outlawal2]

I was able to perform a sustained supercruise on the F-15C without losing any speed, which is ridiculous. To be honest, the whole F-15C "PFM" is a not very realistic, to be honest, but I cannot describe all the problems in this particular bug report. Nevertheless, F-15C PFM was a good effort - we all have to start somewhere.

 

So the whole flight model is not realistic.. But you aren't an F-15 expert.. And you don't cite any specific issues to debate either..

 

Wow that was useful information. Thanks for sharing..

:doh:

[Eldur]

The clean F-15 should be capable of supercruising like M1.03-1.05ish at 30-40kft and that's exactly what she does in DCS now. It's just very subtle so it probably never got any real attention and many people don't even know this - I was also wondering after noticing this and then I did some search and found this:

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3491

Well, I haven't seen the manuals mentioned by that guy, but it seems legit.

 

F-15E with F100-PW-220 M1.03

That's the same engine the Cs have. Sizes are identical, the E is even heavier than the C.

 

BTW the OP's track rar file is broken.

[chev255]

Actually F-15E has more drag than F-15C due to conformal fuel tanks and these figures are with 6x AAMs so F-15C should definitely be able to "supercruise" (but nowhere near F-22 which I believe is supposed to do M1.6?)

[GGTharos]

I was able to perform a sustained supercruise on the F-15C without losing any speed, which is ridiculous. To be honest, the whole F-15C "PFM" is a not very realistic, to be honest, but I cannot describe all the problems in this particular bug report. Nevertheless, F-15C PFM was a good effort - we all have to start somewhere.

 

It isn't ridiculous at all, it is what the f15 does according to RL performance charts.

 

As for the rest of the PFM, those who need to know what's wrong already know what's wrong. Yes you are right about the rudders, known issue.

[H-var]

Well I be darned! A supercruising F-15. What else can you wish for! :lol:

 

I don't believe one bit F-15 can actually supercruise. My bet is that those charts are lying.

[cofcorpse]

My bet is that those charts are lying.

 

Do you have something to prove your assumption? Or is it sixth sense only?

[NineLine]

My bet is that those charts are lying.

 

*sigh*

[H-var]

Do you have something to prove your assumption? Or is it sixth sense only?

Do you have something to prove that those charts don't lie?

[NineLine]

Do you have something to prove that those charts don't lie?

 

Yeah, he had access to a Eagle driver... so unless you have proof of your claims, I think that concludes this discussion.

[GGTharos]

Well I be darned! A supercruising F-15. What else can you wish for! :lol:

 

I don't believe one bit F-15 can actually supercruise. My bet is that those charts are lying.

 

My bet is that the f15 pilots who flew those plans to record the performance did not lie. Now get yourself a -1 section B and if you find anything that deviates from the-1 performance, the devs will look at it :-)

[outlawal2]

Do you have something to prove that those charts don't lie?

 

 

HaHa... I love these kinds of arguments I REALLY do! So you have NOTHING to base your assumptions on so the PUBLISHED charts must be lying... (But you have nothing to support this idea..)

 

Well SHERLOCK, I would believe published info over your assumptions any day of the week so I guess there is your proof..

 

Unbelievable...

LOL

:megalol:

[H-var]

Yeah, he had access to a Eagle driver... so unless you have proof of your claims, I think that concludes this discussion.

I understand that authorities "believed" these pilots because they knew that F-15C is far behind the new (back then) Su-27. It seems like a conspiracy just to save face of the outdated jet fighter by falsifying the charts. Why would I think that? It's simple - no one ever talked about "supercruise" before, until F-22 finally saw the light. Only then the Americans started putting the "supercruise" term into every single documentary video about their aircraft. Maybe the pilots are forced to agree with the given charts because of an order. How would you know unless you are an actual pilot. Even if you were one, you would not be allowed to give away the real performance charts (probably because they are not very good).

 

Bottom line is video footage is an actual proof. Everything else falls into category "that pilot once said".

 

I hope I explained my point well, guys.

[outlawal2]

I understand that authorities "believed" these pilots because they knew that F-15C is far behind the new (back then) Su-27. It seems like a conspiracy just to save face of the outdated jet fighter by falsifying the charts. Why would I think that? It's simple - no one ever talked about "supercruise" before, until F-22 finally saw the light. Only then, Americans started putting the "supercruise" term into every single documentary video about their aircraft. Maybe the pilots are forced to agree with the given charts because of an order. How would you know unless you are an actual pilot. Even if you were one, you would not be allowed to give away the real performance charts (probably because they are not very good).

 

Bottom line is video footage is an actual proof. Everything else falls into category "that pilot once said".

 

I hope I explained my point well, guys.

 

You need help

:cry:

[MTFDarkEagle]

[NineLine]

So you are a better authority than the charts and pilot? Because you know how to use YouTube?

 

I understand that authorities "believed" these pilots because they knew that F-15C is far behind the new (back then) Su-27. It seems like a conspiracy just to save face of the outdated jet fighter by falsifying the charts. Why would I think that? It's simple - no one ever talked about "supercruise" before, until F-22 finally saw the light. Only then the Americans started putting the "supercruise" term into every single documentary video about their aircraft. Maybe the pilots are forced to agree with the given charts because of an order. How would you know unless you are an actual pilot. Even if you were one, you would not be allowed to give away the real performance charts (probably because they are not very good).

 

Bottom line is video footage is an actual proof. Everything else falls into category "that pilot once said".

 

I hope I explained my point well, guys.

[H-var]

Come on guys, I am just trying to make a point to support my argument. I didn't mean to hurt the feelings of the F-15C fans. I know there millions of them around.

 

Well, anyway, without the actual proof, all we have are the charts. I guess, there is not much other choice, but to believe them.

By the way, I have never heard about F-15C being able to supercruise, and I read about it a lot, and watched the US-made documentaries too. It is just strange that never the US officials said "well, Su-27 cannot supercruise, but F-15C still can..." :noexpression:

[NineLine]

You arent hurting any feelings, you just havent offered anything to support your claims.

[GGTharos]

Come on guys, I am just trying to make a point to support my argument. I didn't mean to hurt the feelings of the F-15C fans. I know there millions of them around.

 

You didn't make a point. You made an accusation :)

 

Well, anyway, without the actual proof, all we have are the charts.

The charts are the proof. They are compiled from multiple test flights to by USAF pilots to record the aircraft's performance, and they are used by the USAF pilots.

 

By the way, I have never heard about F-15C being able to supercruise, and I read about it a lot, and watched the US-made documentaries too. It is just strange that never the US officials said "well, Su-27 cannot supercruise, but F-15C still can..." :noexpression:

That's because a max speed of 1.03-1.05 that you will get to fairly slowly isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. It's transsonic. Today, supercruise is defined as something like M1.5 without afterburner.

[H-var]

That's because I do not own an F-15C jet. Give me a unit, and I'll see if it's true. I mean how else do you want me to prove it? Moreover, the higher speed is what has to be proven, not the lower speed. No need to prove that an aircraft can fly at a low speed, but where proof would be needed is when someone claimed they were flying at a speed unlikely for that aircraft. Don't you think?