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@mattebubben, you got any info on whether Spain ever aquired AS30L missiles, and whether or not they were used on F1EE?

 

Thx in advance

 

Im afraid ive not been able to find anything on that subject.

 

My first guess would be no as ive yet to find any evidence for it but i dont know for sure either way but id lean towards no until proven otherwise.

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@mattebubben, you got any info on whether Spain ever aquired AS30L missiles, and whether or not they were used on F1EE?

 

Thx in advance

 

No, never.

 

Regarding BVR missiles, for example the Super-530 was only available for the F1EDA (ex-qatari), as was the only variant in the Spanish Air Force with the integration for this missile.

 

CE/EE used the Aim-9 and R.530 (that one was retired)

 

Basically the F1 on Spanish Air Force evolved from an interceptor to an attack aircraft, and its upgrades were focused to improve this area.

 

Still lots of decision has to be taken, a module is something in continuous evolution and we have to be adaptive. So any thought from you are always welcome.:)

 

 

In any case mattebubben seem to be very well informed about the F1.

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No, never.

 

Regarding BVR missiles, for example the Super-530 was only available for the F1EDA (ex-qatari), as was the only variant in the Spanish Air Force with the integration for this missile.

 

CE/EE used the Aim-9 and R.530 (that one was retired)

 

Basically the F1 on Spanish Air Force evolved from an interceptor to an attack aircraft, and its upgrades were focused to improve this area.

 

Still lots of decision has to be taken, a module is something in continuous evolution and we have to be adaptive. So any thought from you are always welcome.:)

 

 

In any case mattebubben seem to be very well informed about the F1.

 

Splendid info, much appreciated. :thumbup: Not that I wish to go into the "unknown", but I guess the armament list is something that`s actively discussed, right? Is there any indicator for what can be expected? (only unguided A-G, or maybe something "smart", only IR A-A missiles, etc...?) Thx again :)

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No, never.

 

Regarding BVR missiles, for example the Super-530 was only available for the F1EDA (ex-qatari), as was the only variant in the Spanish Air Force with the integration for this missile.

 

CE/EE used the Aim-9 and R.530 (that one was retired)

 

Basically the F1 on Spanish Air Force evolved from an interceptor to an attack aircraft, and its upgrades were focused to improve this area.

 

Still lots of decision has to be taken, a module is something in continuous evolution and we have to be adaptive. So any thought from you are always welcome.:)

 

 

In any case mattebubben seem to be very well informed about the F1.

 

Have you guys been able to find anything about if the EE was able to carry 4 Aim-9s or not?

 

Since if it was that would be a great bonus especially if it will not be given 530s or S530 capability.

 

Since for me the two extra missiles is as or more important then BVR capability is.

 

And ive been able to find some evidence of Spanish F1s able to carry to 4x Aim-9s though it did not specify if it was for the CE only or if the EE was also given the ability.

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I talk only about M2000 nothing about delta's with canard configuration, only m2000 against newer designs like F-16.

 

Both Mirage 2000 and F-16 are 4th generation fighters, and actually the Mirage 2000C is "newer" and was much more capable in the air to air role back when both entered service. The original F-16A didn't even have medium range missiles and its radar was pretty limited.

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Both Mirage 2000 and F-16 are 4th generation fighters, and actually the Mirage 2000C is "newer" and was much more capable in the air to air role back when both entered service. The original F-16A didn't even have medium range missiles and its radar was pretty limited.

 

Yea Correct no doubt, for misunderstanding talk only about delta configuration the airframe it self, M2000 is nice fighter but in close combat fight it can not compare with the F16.

Once you have tasted Flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your Eyes turned Skyward.

 

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9./JG27

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It would obviously be nice if the plane would depict multiple variants, so an A2A version could be done as well.

 

Was anything changed about the machine that would preclude it from carrying supers, like anything different about radar or hardpoints? Or was it simply designated into an attack role but technically still retained its fighter capabilities?

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M2000 is nice fighter but in close combat fight it can not compare with the F16.

 

You mean the 2000 outclasses the F16 in close combat right ?

Kind regards,

Vince

 

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i5-7300HQ@2,5GHz | nVidia GTX 1050 Ti | 8Gb RAM | 256GB SSD for Windows+DCS | Windows10

 

Modules:

 

Mirage2000C | AV-8B N/A | MiG-21Bis | F-5E | L-39 | Gazelle | FC3

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but m2000 can't be compared to the f16a with mere heatseekers.

 

it entered service in 1978 and mirage 2000c in 1984.

 

in1984 us has early f16c, the block25 at this point it can launch mavericks and use aim7 missiles. this one has the an/apg68 radar and is now fitted with mfd's

 

at this point I'd consider f16 a better option just due it's versatility


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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Splendid info, much appreciated. :thumbup: Not that I wish to go into the "unknown", but I guess the armament list is something that`s actively discussed, right? Is there any indicator for what can be expected? (only unguided A-G, or maybe something "smart", only IR A-A missiles, etc...?) Thx again :)

 

For example GBU10/16 with external designator.

 

 

Have you guys been able to find anything about if the EE was able to carry 4 Aim-9s or not?

 

Since if it was that would be a great bonus especially if it will not be given 530s or S530 capability.

 

Since for me the two extra missiles is as or more important then BVR capability is.

 

And ive been able to find some evidence of Spanish F1s able to carry to 4x Aim-9s though it did not specify if it was for the CE only or if the EE was also given the ability.

 

In our documentation it doesn't appear a payload with 4 Aim9, but in pictures you can see that configuration in the M for exposition. So we will have to investigate and ask to the EdA.

 

auazaa.jpg

 

 

auazaa.jpg

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but m2000 can't be compared to the f16a with mere heatseekers.

 

it entered service in 1978 and mirage 2000c in 1984.

 

in1984 us has early f16c, the block25 at this point it can launch mavericks and use aim7 missiles. this one has the an/apg68 radar and is now fitted with mfd's

 

at this point I'd consider f16 a better option just due it's versatility

 

Your way of picking those dates are a bit interesting =P.

 

For the F-16 you pick the year when the first Production aircraft flew (1978 ) instead of when it reached operational status in the first Squadron (1980) while with the Mirage 2000 you went the other way around and instead of picking the first flight of a production aircraft (1982) you pick when it reached full operational status (1984) or you could have used the date when they were first delivered to squadrons (1980 for the F-16 and 1983 for the M2000).

 

Since its easy to spin the dates if you want to for example i could say that the Mirage 2000 is from 1978 (when the Prototype first flew) and the F-16 is from December 1980 (when it reached operational status).

 

When comparing numbers its best to compare the same type of number (be it First flight to first flight or Operational status to operational status etc) since otherwise it can easily give the wrong idea by a year or two.


Edited by mattebubben
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For example GBU10/16 with external designator.

 

In our documentation it doesn't appear a payload with 4 Aim9, but in pictures you can see that configuration in the M for exposition. So we will have to investigate and ask to the EdA.

 

Thank you for the responses and the communication with the community.

 

Im very much looking forward to this module and im looking forward to every picture and update from you guys.

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Hmm… That is indeed a very interesting equipment, as well as every thing else in the Spanish military, but playing as Spanish is… well, quite uncomfortable for me because there hasn't been significant involvements of Spain besides NATO coalitions, or high tension periods that affected eastern "western" Europe, for getting scenario interest. Spain lacks military charisma from an outsider like me, although I really like this aircraft and appreciate the quality of this army.

 

I can be ignorant about the Spanish army history, so I'd like to know what kind of plausible scenarios would be imagined to play with this module with the current theater asset, AND without the NATO/US background.

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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Well like most Nato members Spanish involvement of conflicts would be most likely be as a part of that coalition (For example Spanish F/A-18s took part in the Bosnian and Kosovo Conflicts operating from the Aviano Airbase)

And Spanish Mirage F1s have taken part in the Baltic Air Policing mission

 

So the most logical Scenarios for Spain would be either as a part of Nato or FN missions.

But thats not different then most other "minor" Nato members.


Edited by mattebubben
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Your way of picking those dates are a bit interesting =P.

 

For the F-16 you pick the year when the first Production aircraft flew (1978 ) instead of when it reached operational status in the first Squadron (1980) while with the Mirage 2000 you went the other way around and instead of picking the first flight of a production aircraft (1982) you pick when it reached full operational status (1984) or you could have used the date when they were first delivered to squadrons (1980 for the F-16 and 1983 for the M2000).

 

Since its easy to spin the dates if you want to for example i could say that the Mirage 2000 is from 1978 (when the Prototype first flew) and the F-16 is from December 1980 (when it reached operational status).

 

When comparing numbers its best to compare the same type of number (be it First flight to first flight or Operational status to operational status etc) since otherwise it can easily give the wrong idea by a year or two.

 

Why assume that im somehow twisting dates? instead of making a mistake?

 

yea its better than the initial F16A blocks 4 years from before it, but that since still doesn't change the fact that when the M2000C entered squadron service within the same year the f16C block 25 , both are from 1984....... It is said that it was entering squadron service in September of 1984, which would ,mean just 2 months after the M2000C entering official squadron service. I already made note of what could be considered better in my earlier post. Don't get me wrong M2000C is still a a good adversary in A2A, though also to note we have a later M2000C in DCS with an RDI radar, circa 1987 or so.


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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so from what i read the variant of the Mirage thats being modeled is the mirage F1EE, export version for spain( because aviodevs a spanish team?)

 

so whats the difference between the spanish export version of the F1EE vs just regular F1E? both are fighters with multi role capability, with E aslo being exported? Were there some specific needs the Spanish AF required thier mirages and therefore warranted a new designation? or was it just the cockpit labeling done in Spanish? or just a method of giving unique designations of the F1E for different export users.


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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The cockpit labeling was in French.

 

But we dont yet have an exact idea on what they could use.

 

In service the EE was primarily used in the Air-Ground role with the CE (Spanish F1C) taking up the primary Air-Air role together with other aircraft (Like the F-4 Phantom and later F-18A).

 

So it never carried BVR missiles like the R.530 or Super R.530F during its service and instead had Aim-9s as its only Air-Air missile (With First rear aspect Aim-9s probably Aim-9J or Aim-9N and later Aim-9Juli All aspect missiles).

 

So the choice that has to be made and that Aviodev is currently looking into is if the EE was able to carry the R.530 and Super R.530F but never did or if it lacked the capability as it was not need for it.

 

In either case they will have to make a decision to add the BVR missiles as an option or not.

 

Another difference is that the F-1EE had a different

(in some ways more advanced) RWR system/Display then the early F-1E had.

 

But in general there were plenty of differences between the different E variants depending on when they were built and what the export customer wanted and the EE is not exception to this.

 

So exactly what the EE module will be capable off will depend on their choices of what to include and if they want to be 100% true to what it used in Spanish service or also include options that were common on other F1Es and that the F1EE could have used in Theory.


Edited by mattebubben
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thanks for the info, i personally hope it gets a BVR option, ( even if just theoretical) because of other 3rd generation aircraft that would have been competing with it. such as the Mig23, which is a possible module in the the future of DCS. another option for avoidev should they decide to stay 100% true to capabilities, would be to include the interceptor F1CE, though ofc that would be extra work for the team.

 

even if EE is a Spanish version id nonetheless would be looking forward to Aviodev including some skins of other notable F1 users.


Edited by Kev2go

 

Build:

 

Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Case/Tower: Corsair Graphite 760tm ,Asus Strix Z790 Motherboard, Intel Core i7 12700k ,Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 64gb ram (3600 mhz) , (Asus strix oc edition) Nvidia RTX 3080 12gb , Evga g2 850 watt psu, Hardrives ; Samsung 970 EVo, , Samsung evo 860 pro 1 TB SSD, Samsung evo 850 pro 1TB SSD,  WD 1TB HDD

 

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The Mirage F1CE in Spanish service never Carried the Super 530 though,

only the Older 1960s R.530 (because they never bought the Super 530F) and after that missile was retired it also only carried Aim-9s.

 

The only F1 Spain used that carried Super 530s (AFAIK)

were the 12 surplus F1Es (F1EDA) acquired from Qatar in the early 90s (These were delivered together with atleast 50 Super 530F missiles).

 

Though the F1CE might also have been capable of carrying Super 530s (even if like the EE it never did).

 

But yea i agree that i would also be ok With it getting super 530s if the EE was capable of using them (even if it did not use them in service) since it would allow it to represent F1Es of other nations.

 

And since the EE used the Cyrano IVM radar that was standard amongst most F1Es so the Radar atleast would be Super 530 Capable.


Edited by mattebubben
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