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Question regarding different types of guns


WinterH

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Hi, I've been wondering a thing about upcoming Fw-190D.

 

A feature we got accustomed to from most of older warbird sims is having two gun triggers each firing seperate groups of guns, usually one for machine guns and another for auto cannons.

 

Was this available in real Fw-190D, and if so, are we going to get it in DCS incarnation of Dora? May be MG 151 and MG 131 weren't too radically different in ballistics at least in meaningful ranges, so the Fw-190 weren't equipped to fire them seperately, it's something I always wondered.

 

So far everything we can fly in DCS had a single type of forward firing gun onboard, if we don't count pods. With coming of modules like Bf-109K with 30mm motor kanone and 13mm MG 131, and possibly a MiG-15 with 23mm and 37 mm cannons, soon there will be many aircraft with two different gun systems on board with very dissimilar ballistics, so such a feature feels almost essential but of course I am not exactly sure if they were all equipped so in real life.

 

Any comments from anyone with knowledge?

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It should be separate buttons for machine guns and cannons.

 

The KG13 Stick was used on all Luftwaffe fighters of the era. The KG13B modelled in the Dora has four buttons, one for machine guns, cannons, bombs and lastly radio.

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Yes it was possible to fire cannons and mg's separately and i'm sure it will be also in DCS Dora. Both Bf 109 and FW 190 had KG 13 control stick and there was separate buttons for mg's and cannons.

Edit. i was too slow :)

243308d1379499702t-1-1-replicas-raf-spade-grips-kg-13a-1-.jpg

 

243310d1379499705t-1-1-replicas-raf-spade-grips-kg-13a.jpg

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Yes it was possible to fire cannons and mg's separately and i'm sure it will be also in DCS Dora. Both Bf 109 and FW 190 had KG 13 control stick and there was separate buttons for mg's and cannons.

Edit. i was too slow :)

243308d1379499702t-1-1-replicas-raf-spade-grips-kg-13a-1-.jpg

 

243310d1379499705t-1-1-replicas-raf-spade-grips-kg-13a.jpg

 

I can't wait to hook mine up again :D

 

IMG_0111.jpg

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I can't wait to hook mine up again :D

 

 

Looks great, what stick is that and how much? :joystick:

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Ok, thanks. Did a bit googling and looks like they are great sticks (if a bit pricey :)). Would love to have KG 13 handle to my MS FFB2 base...

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Ok, thanks. Did a bit googling and looks like they are great sticks (if a bit pricey :)). Would love to have KG 13 handle to my MS FFB2 base...

 

I suggest you check out Baur's incredible work, should be on sale next year it seems :)

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3774820/1

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/4324-baurs-kg-13-grip/

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I suggest you check out Baur's incredible work, should be on sale next year it seems :)

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3774820/1

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/4324-baurs-kg-13-grip/

 

Yes, i've keep one eye on that BOS topic :) I guess 280 euros is not that bad for quality product. Might get one in next year...

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Fw 190 D-9 used the same KG 13B stick grip as earlier Fw 190 versions. There are 3 weapon buttons on the stick : A, B1, B2.

 

A (trigger): fires the synchronized weapons (MG 131, MG 151)

B1 (on top of the stick): fires the outer wings guns (not available on D-9, so this button does nothing)

B2 (left side of the stick): bomb drop. This button is also used to fire WGr 21 or R4M rockets.

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Fw 190 D-9 used the same KG 13B stick grip as earlier Fw 190 versions. There are 3 weapon buttons on the stick : A, B1, B2.

 

A (trigger): fires the synchronized weapons (MG 131, MG 151)

B1 (on top of the stick): fires the outer wings guns (not available on D-9, so this button does nothing)

B2 (left side of the stick): bomb drop. This button is also used to fire WGr 21 or R4M rockets.

 

I was going to disagree but then i fortunately re-check from my books and you are right :) One button for both cannons and MG's in D9.

Should never post anything before checking sources...

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Which book?

 

Modeller's eye No.4 FW 190 D9 Dora.

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Hmm... from the looks of it there were various set-ups for the weapons.

 

In another forums I have read that the 109 G6 used the flip button to fire the cannon and the top button to fire the MG :)

 

Hopefully we can set it so that the machine guns will fire on one button.

 

It would make sense that it would be set like that given the lack of outer cannons.

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Hmm... from the looks of it there were various set-ups for the weapons.

 

In another forums I have read that the 109 G6 used the flip button to fire the cannon and the top button to fire the MG :)

 

Hopefully we can set it so that the machine guns will fire on one button.

 

It would make sense that it would be set like that given the lack of outer cannons.

 

Seems so. G6 manual says flip button for MG's and top button for cannon. When wing cannons were used, flip button for fuselage guns (mg's and cannon) and top button for wing cannons.

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Fw 190 D-9 used the same KG 13B stick grip as earlier Fw 190 versions. There are 3 weapon buttons on the stick : A, B1, B2.

 

A (trigger): fires the synchronized weapons (MG 131, MG 151)

B1 (on top of the stick): fires the outer wings guns (not available on D-9, so this button does nothing)

B2 (left side of the stick): bomb drop. This button is also used to fire WGr 21 or R4M rockets.

 

Just thought I should post this here...

 

IMAG0545.jpg

 

so it seems that like you said one button did fire both but they did indeed change this...

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  • ED Team

I think how its modelled currently is that all guns fire synchronized. If we can get hard facts that the stick had options to fire guns and cannons separately I will submit it.

 

Krupi, it says full report in volume 2, do you have that?


Edited by NineLine

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Here is the full report...

 

IMAG0554.jpg

 

IMAG0555.jpg

 

IMAG0556.jpg

 

I recall reading some accounts where the pilots specifically mention switching from MG to Cannon fire, but that might take a bit of time to track down.

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It raises another question though, if we really can fire mgs and cannons seperately, for which weapon would EZ 42 be computing a firing solution? Only the 20mm perhaps, or an "in between best guess for both"?

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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It raises another question though, if we really can fire mgs and cannons seperately, for which weapon would EZ 42 be computing a firing solution? Only the 20mm perhaps, or an "in between best guess for both"?

 

I would think all guns would be harmonized to the same point wouldnt they?

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It raises another question though, if we really can fire mgs and cannons seperately, for which weapon would EZ 42 be computing a firing solution? Only the 20mm perhaps, or an "in between best guess for both"?

 

Why would the EZ 42 be different, would they not just change the wiring of the KG13B... so in theory this would not affect the firing solution?

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Well, just a thought actually, of course it's just wiring between guns and stick to make it work. But, if ballistics of the guns are different, I'd expect gunsight to be adjusted to ballistics of either only one of them or "somewhere in between" right?

 

Yeah guns are most likely harmonized for a range of convergence, but after that range wouldn't their ballistics be likely to differ enough to require different amount of deflection by attacker?

Wishlist: F-4E Block 53 +, MiG-27K, Su-17M3 or M4, AH-1F or W circa 80s or early 90s, J35 Draken, Kfir C7, Mirage III/V

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