Question regarding different types of guns

[NineLine]

Well, just a thought actually, of course it's just wiring between guns and stick to make it work. But, if ballistics of the guns are different, I'd expect gunsight to be adjusted to ballistics of either only one of them or "somewhere in between" right?

 

Yeah guns are most likely harmonized for a range of convergence, but after that range wouldn't their ballistics be likely to differ enough to require different amount of deflection by attacker?

 

I am sure, if they were in the ideal range, its possibles the guns hit and cannons dont, and vise versa...

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

I'm not sure if I qualify as a subject matter expert, but here is the manual; http://www.spruemaster.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/manual/Fw%20190%20D-9%20Teil%208A%20Schusswaffen.pdf. It mentions both guns fired simultaneously with "A" button repeatedly (eg. page 9).

In the electrical drawings (page 37) you can see that you can block out the circuitry for "Schußwaffe Rumpf" (E16, fuselage guns) and "Schußwaffe Flügelwurzel" (D1, wing guns), thus selecting gun pairs.

I'm sure that modifications could be made in the field to assign a different button to a different gun pair, but if this was so in "factory fresh" FW I dare not state.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[NineLine]

The original cockpit shown early in development had a second row of fuses, and you could disable the guns or cannons for this effect, but it was shown the Dora didnt have this other panel visible. SO it was removed, as was access to the fuses for the guns and cannons.

 

So now its a matter of determining if the Dora did indeed have a button for guns and one for guns and cannons.

 

I'm not sure if I qualify as a subject matter expert, but here is the manual; http://www.spruemaster.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/manual/Fw%20190%20D-9%20Teil%208A%20Schusswaffen.pdf

It mentions both guns fired with "A" button (page 9). In the electrical drawings (page 37) you can see that you can block out the circuitry for "Schußwaffe Rumpf" (fuselage guns) and "Schußwaffe Flügelwurzel" (wing guns), thus selecting groups.

[Krupi]

I'm not sure if I qualify as a subject matter expert, but here is the manual; http://www.spruemaster.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/manual/Fw%20190%20D-9%20Teil%208A%20Schusswaffen.pdf. It mentions both guns fired with "A" button (page 9).

In the electrical drawings (page 37) you can see that you can block out the circuitry for "Schußwaffe Rumpf" (fuselage guns) and "Schußwaffe Flügelwurzel" (wing guns), thus selecting groups.

 

Awesome, I would rep you but it won't let me atm :(

[Krupi]

Okay its getting late here so I will post what I have found so far...

 

 

Now I interpret the line "I let go with my machine guns and 20mm cannons" but that could be interpreted in many ways of course.

 

This one is a bit more compelling...

 

 

"Quickly I pressed the triggers - Click, Click" I find that compelling evidence, but then who knowns... he was originally a 109 pilot (IIRC) so maybe he was used to pressing both :noexpression: .

 

I am sure I have read other accounts which lead me to believe that at least some JG at the very least modified the electrics to make use of the spare button.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Krupi

[NineLine]

Thanks Krupi, I think I will report it as possible separate triggers. Obviously it wont be in release, but maybe something for a future patch, it will be beta after all.

[Krupi]

Thanks Krupi, I think I will report it as possible separate triggers. Obviously it wont be in release, but maybe something for a future patch, it will be beta after all.

 

No problem, it has been interesting. For so long I had just assumed that the way it was modelled in il2 etc... was correct I never thought to question what to me made so much sense (Well at least Barkhorn definitely saw the sense in separating it :D ).

Edited August 5, 2014 by Krupi

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

"Quickly I pressed the triggers - Click, Click" I find that compelling evidence, but then who knowns... he was originally a 109 pilot (IIRC) so maybe he was used to pressing both.

The electrical drawing offers more insight ...

On the KG.13B, button "B1" connects to lead 204P, which feeds the electrical signal to the MG.131 (you can trace lead 204P to the "SVK 2 - P200" distribution box). "Knopf A" always fires both gun pairs (MG.131 and MG.151).

All you would have to do is wire 204P up to "SVK 2" (note that 204P is not connected at "SVK 2" in this electrical diagram, but that it's an optional connection and "SVK 2" is prepared for it).

Possibly this button assignment routing was introduced with a "Rüstsatz" (: upgrade, I think it's R6). So it fits to introduce this with a patch :)

 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[NineLine]

It should be separate buttons for machine guns and cannons.

 

The KG13 Stick was used on all Luftwaffe fighters of the era. The KG13B modelled in the Dora has four buttons, one for machine guns, cannons, bombs and lastly radio.

 

 

 

Ok, I found a KG-13B on another site, but I dont see four buttons on it, and the site states the trigger for guns is for both guns and cannons:

 

http://lwcollectibles.blogspot.ca/2007/12/luftwaffe-fw-190-control-stick-kg-13b-2.html

[NineLine]

Yeah both of these dont do much to suggest they were separate... I almost wonder if this was some sort of field upgrade?

 

Okay its getting late here so I will post what I have found so far...

 

1

 

Now I interpret the line "I let go with my machine guns and 20mm cannons" but that could be interpreted in many ways of course.

 

This one is a bit more compelling...

 

2

 

"Quickly I pressed the triggers - Click, Click" I find that compelling evidence, but then who knowns... he was originally a 109 pilot (IIRC) so maybe he was used to pressing both :noexpression: .

 

I am sure I have read other accounts which lead me to believe that at least some JG at the very least modified the electrics to make use of the spare button.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

More pictures here. This is a (modified) KG.13B according to the website (from a restored Me.262 by Wildmoser).

Website also shows a KG.13C with button "B2" moved down all the way to the bottom of the grip.

So, modifications were done and the electronics allowed for extensions.

 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[NineLine]

Ok so the lower button on the grip is now the bomb release is that correct?

 

PS I have requested this fix, dont know if it made it into release or not, havent checked, but at very least we should have option to map the gund to different buttons, although I dont know that the model will reflect these changes right away.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Ok so the lower button on the grip is now the bomb release is that correct?

 

PS I have requested this fix, dont know if it made it into release or not, havent checked, but at very least we should have option to map the gund to different buttons, although I dont know that the model will reflect these changes right away.

Like mentioned, the picture I posted is from a Me.262. Still a KG.13B, but modified (to illustrate the upgradeability/moddeability of the KG.13).

The added button on the lower left is for clearing the breach in case of a jammed gun. KG.13 V60 is exclusively for FW.

 

Button layout is (as illustrated here):

"A" - pressed by the flip-over cover-turned-trigger, both MG.131 and MG.151 gun pairs simultaneously

"B1" - exposed by flipping over the the flip-over cover, MG.131 gun pair only (according to the earlier posted electrical diagram, that shows lead 204P going to "SVK 2 - P200", and thus the MG.131), could also be used for additional wing-mounted weapons

"B2" - top-left, bombs or droptanks

"FT" - lower front, radio transmission ("Funk Telegrafie")

 

Edited August 6, 2014 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[NineLine]

Copy that, that is a good image to, I will submit that as well.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

It's fun to learn together.

[NineLine]

Yeah, I have enjoyed my journey through the D-9 :)

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Yeah, I have enjoyed my journey through the D-9 :)

I'm sure you will put it to good use with the Bf.109-K4; you're designing that model, right?

[NineLine]

Not me, but its next on my list for testing :)

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

Not me, but its next on my list for testing :)

Lucky b...

 

I'm still looking forward to your AI StuKa though :P

[Flagrum]

Some new(?) findings regarding the separate firing of the different gun types: the SZKK4 has provisions to select either "all guns" or "some guns", the "Wahlschalter" ... which is sadly not implemented (yet?):

 

 

For some more details: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2144180&postcount=9

[TWC_SLAG]

cannons only

 

Is it possible to assign one control for the cannon, and another for the machine guns?

 

Thanks,

 

badfinger

[flare2000x]

I don't think you can currently, there was a thread about this earlier, and some people wanted it, so me might see it in a future update.