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How to Takeoff in the Dora


SimFreak

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Okay thanks, I will try to do that.

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Turning off takeoff assist certainly allows better control authority, and having it down to 0% helped responsiveness immensely. That left wing often dips though, and gives me a feeling akin to carrier take-offs: that scary low dip toward impending disaster, then enough airspeed builds and the airframe rises back up to a successful takeoff.

 

I did some high speed taxi practice with the Dora, S-ing down the runway, to figure out where this rolling tendency was coming from, and noticed the Dora handles differently if steered with rudder versus brakes. Once fast enough for the tail to get light, the Dora, as modeled, feels like a vehicle with a very high CG (e.g. a double decker bus). If I use rudder only, the Dora has a strong tendency to tip over on the outside main gear and drag the wingtip on the outside of the turn. This is especially acute with right rudder and high power settings (takeoff situation). However, if I use the brakes, the plane pivots about the braked wheel, and I can S back and forth wildly, and groundloops are generally flat, wings level.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Even before acquiring this beauty I realized that even taking off with this model would be a challenge. Hence , I decided to record my first ever attempts (10) to take off in the Dora. Please bear in mind that this is not a tutorial :megalol: Just a recording of my fails (and maybe successes?)

 

 

Before attempting the takeoffs I did peruse this thread and watch several awesome tutorial vids on how to do it. :book: Still not quite there. Need a lot of training still.:pilotfly:

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Even before acquiring this beauty I realized that even taking off with this model would be a challenge. Hence , I decided to record my first ever attempts (10) to take off in the Dora. Please bear in mind that this is not a tutorial :megalol: Just a recording of my fails (and maybe successes?)

 

 

Before attempting the takeoffs I did peruse this thread and watch several awesome tutorial vids on how to do it. :book: Still not quite there. Need a lot of training still.:pilotfly:

 

Good video especially showing the axis for reference points. Keep the rudder to the right to start with, pull the stick back to the right slightly, accelerate to 2700 rpm a little quicker, and put the stick back to the neutral position more smoothly once you hit the 150-180 kph range. Once you figure out the rudder control a little better you can stay on the ground with the tail up by pushing the stick slightly forward of neutral to built up more speed before lifting off.

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Good video especially showing the axis for reference points. Keep the rudder to the right to start with, pull the stick back to the right slightly, accelerate to 2700 rpm a little quicker, and put the stick back to the neutral position more smoothly once you hit the 150-180 kph range. Once you figure out the rudder control a little better you can stay on the ground with the tail up by pushing the stick slightly forward of neutral to built up more speed before lifting off.

 

Thanks for the helpful advice. Indeed it seems that just a correct amount of right aileron at the right time is the key. :thumbup:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Her is 10 times i try takeoff, 2 success only.

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Her is 10 times i try takeoff, 2 success only.

 

Certainly I’m no expert but a chance viewing of a elderly WW2 pilot taking off in a refurbished Spitifre helped me with the P51 and FW109 DCS aircraft a lot.

 

In the video the camera was positioned above and behind the pilot. On initial take off run, to keep on the center, he used full rudder in short jabs, on / off on/off on/off repeatedly as required.. No gradual application or holding the rudder but full deflection and then off and then full on again and straight away off, if needed etc etc

 

As the speed increased of course the amount of deflection is reduced until the tail lifts and then minimal deflection is used.

 

Remember try not holding the rudder, push it quickly full deflection then release. Repeat if more is needed, again and again if necessary. Reduce the amount of deflection as the speed increases. You will quickly see what works

 

Centre the stick as previously stated at the right speed and maybe give it a little bit of right rudder. The plane will just lift off. If it stalls you need more speed before lift off, probably the stick was not centered true but slightly back / slight forward to gain speed is okay.

 

Works for me.

 

Kind Regards

Chris

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Here's my strategy for takeoffs in case anyone finds it useful:

 

I start with the stick held back and somewhat to the right as well as moderate rudder input to counteract the initial torque. Then I gradually bring the throttle up to 3000 RPMs during the first 100 ft or so, adjusting the rudder as I go. Once I have some speed, I start gradually using less rudder and keeping it straight (of course). I eventually lift off of 3 points. As I lift off, I immediately drop the nose and level off so I don't buffet or stall (while still holding the stick to the right to counteract the torque).

 

The key for me is that I find there is too much torque at full power and at only 3000 RPMs you get a second or two more for rudder corrections before things go terribly wrong. ;)

(PS: I don't use any takeoff assistance)


Edited by Ultra
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Thanks for the tips "CJS". I've been training a lot, improved a little margin of success in departures. But, well difficult, especially for not having rudder in the Warthog and has not pedal. This transition between joy and keyboard and quite difficult.

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with all assists turned off, and rudder as well, I can take off fine in single player.

i hardly am ever able to do so in multi player.

 

WHY ? i try more speed, less speed..... its very frustrating.

 

What actually goes wrong?

klem

56 RAF 'Firebirds'

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Why do you mention differences between single and multiplayer?

isn't it the same game after all?

 

I guess it is because in sinle you have take off assistance on and

on multiplayer there is no assistance?

335th_GREros

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry I did not get back until now. I practice and practice, believe me.

 

After watching some youtube videos, I tried to let go of the joystick

and just let the dora rise up on its own. What happens most of the time

is that I flip over to the left side and crash.

 

I used to do that in the mustang when I first started out, but now by keeping

the stick back and to the right, I dont ever crash the mustang anymore.

 

Ive been told that the PING rate of a server can have an effect on takeoff.

 

I have all assists turned off, and have now for over a month.

 

I have tried messing with curves on my joystick and dead zones

thinking that it was too sensitive and causing me to over compensate.

 

Now I have just gone back to stock, with no assists on.

 

I try and watch my speed to be within the limits, but Im just

not doing so well and I wont give up, but it just very frustrating.

 

Im not even doing that well in single player anymore, but its much

better then multiplayer, at least I can take off once in awhile.

 

I read that someone had changed something in the lua file that had

to do with left wing going down.

 

I have tried slow roll and build up speed, I have tried brakes on

and 25 rpm and full throttle and it seems going faster is a little better.

 

I really like the Dora a LOT and would like to fly it more in

multiplayer and I just need to find out what Im doing wrong.

 

Ill go fly and capture it and be back with what Im doing so you can see.

 

I really appreciate the help, and am glad there are people who are nice here.

 

 

 

*************************************************************************

 

 

up and down I actually got up and was too busy to change flaps and gear

up and down2 is what happens most of the time to me.

up and down.trk

up and down2.trk


Edited by ctguy1955
added tracks
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[snip]

 

What you're describing is the Dora stalling on take off.

 

If you let it take off by itself, then the moment you get airborne you need to add a tiny bit of forward stick to lower the climb rate otherwise it will stall itself and drop the left wing.

 

If you don't think you can manage that, during take off press forward a little and keep the Dora on the runway to build up some more speed before you pull back gently.

 

Don't be afraid to give the Dora a lot of throttle on take off either (manual says 3300 is permissable for T/O), it makes things easier once you learn to control the inital yaw as the power on tap means you pick up speed quickly.

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Thank You Buzzles ! I am reading this late, and did again practice over and over trying

many different things. I did get to take off ok sometimes, but it was not pretty !

 

I will try what you say and hope for the best !

 

I appreciate your help !!

 

Mike

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Thanks Buzzles! That worked flawlessly.

I can do the P51 in my sleep, the 109 is fairly simple for me with information gleaned from http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/ ... and now I have prettier take-off and landings in the Focke Wulf thanks to you.

 

I don't know if it's covered in the manual ... but it feels like the tail wheel locks while you keep back pressure on the stick ... similar to the Mustang .. except it doesn't stay locked :).

 

Rep inbound!


Edited by Teapot

"A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft."

Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps

Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!

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Sorry I did not get back until now. I practice and practice, believe me.

 

After watching some youtube videos, I tried to let go of the joystick

and just let the dora rise up on its own. What happens most of the time

is that I flip over to the left side and crash.

 

I used to do that in the mustang when I first started out, but now by keeping

the stick back and to the right, I dont ever crash the mustang anymore.

 

Ive been told that the PING rate of a server can have an effect on takeoff.

 

I have all assists turned off, and have now for over a month.

 

I have tried messing with curves on my joystick and dead zones

thinking that it was too sensitive and causing me to over compensate.

 

Now I have just gone back to stock, with no assists on.

 

I try and watch my speed to be within the limits, but Im just

not doing so well and I wont give up, but it just very frustrating.

 

Im not even doing that well in single player anymore, but its much

better then multiplayer, at least I can take off once in awhile.

 

I read that someone had changed something in the lua file that had

to do with left wing going down.

 

I have tried slow roll and build up speed, I have tried brakes on

and 25 rpm and full throttle and it seems going faster is a little better.

 

I really like the Dora a LOT and would like to fly it more in

multiplayer and I just need to find out what Im doing wrong.

 

Ill go fly and capture it and be back with what Im doing so you can see.

 

I really appreciate the help, and am glad there are people who are nice here.

 

 

 

*************************************************************************

 

 

up and down I actually got up and was too busy to change flaps and gear

up and down2 is what happens most of the time to me.

Hey Mike,

 

just watched your replays.

 

Wow, that is quite an extreme FOV. Why do you choose this FOV? You do have TrackIR. Use it. With such a FOV it is hard to estimate distances and, more critically, your height.

 

Press RCTRL+Enter to see you inputs. In both tracks you pressed the left wheelbrake during the takeoff run. Why? Maybe your left wheelbrake is double assigned. Check that.

 

Use the flaps in the take-off position.

And don´t forget to flip the gear-up guard. It will make life easier, once you´re airborne :D

 

I don´t recommend to hold the brakes while accelerating the engine.

Start the takeoff run without brakes. Increase the rpm to taxiing values first. As soon as you move, with the stick fully aft, check that the tail wheel is locked by pressing and releasing the wheelbrakes, one first, then the other. Then increase the throttle to 3000rpm, within 2 seconds. Start to count in you mind twentyone...twentytwo. Start to move the throttle when you start to count, and when you finish ...ytwo the throttle should reach the 3000prm position.

Do some dry throttle movements in this manner to get a feeling for it.

Don´t hesitate to use the power. You need it for the take off run.

 

Always have a look at the turn indicator and keep it centered with the pedals, not the brakes.

 

Keep the stick fully aft up to 120km/h.

Then center it, so that the tail comes up. Then pull the stick again to get airborne.

 

Once in the air, don´t pull to hard. Push the stick forward again to fly level a few feet over the gound till you accelerated to 220km/h. Then start to climb. Now you can retract flaps and gear.

 

Fox

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No breaks for takeoff imho....the propwash and locked tailwheel should suffice.

For 109 and 190

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

There are two types of fighter pilots - those who have, and those who will execute a magnificent break turn towards a bug on the canopy . . . .

 

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As we're all throwing in our own techniques.....

 

Align precisely on the runway - you'll have enough directional concerns without pointing at an angle.

Pick a point, cloud, runway edges for directional visual reference.

Stick fully back to lock tail wheel.

Hold that stick as though you were leading a baby by the hand. Apply a little right rudder and a little right aileron.

Nail your visual reference before moving.

Throttle up smoothly (hold on brakes to at least 50% to establish airflow over the tail).

Detect directional shift and counter immediately with a dab of brakes and a touch more rudder and aileron if it's a large swing. Be positive but no more than is essential. Don't add to your troubles.

Move stick to centre at 100+kph and be ready for any swing.

Anticipate roll on lift off and remember that baby's hand, don't over-control. Better a wing-low lift off than over-correcting it into the deck

 

 

Anticipate. Stay right on top of it. Fractions of a second count.

 

Tip! If you find you have put on too much rudder on ease it off, don't kick in opposite rudder.


Edited by klem

klem

56 RAF 'Firebirds'

ASUS ROG Strix Z390-F mobo, i7 8086A @ 5.0 GHz with Corsair H115i watercooling, Gigabyte 2080Ti GAMING OC 11Gb GPU , 32Gb DDR4 RAM, 500Gb and 256Gb SSD SATA III 6Gb/s + 2TB , Pimax 8k Plus VR, TM Warthog Throttle, TM F18 Grip on Virpil WarBRD base, Windows 10 Home 64bit

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ctguy Cannot take off

 

Sorry I did not get back until now. I practice and practice, believe me.

 

After watching some youtube videos, I tried to let go of the joystick

and just let the dora rise up on its own. What happens most of the time

is that I flip over to the left side and crash.

 

I used to do that in the mustang when I first started out, but now by keeping

the stick back and to the right, I dont ever crash the mustang anymore.

 

Ive been told that the PING rate of a server can have an effect on takeoff.

 

I have all assists turned off, and have now for over a month.

 

I have tried messing with curves on my joystick and dead zones

thinking that it was too sensitive and causing me to over compensate.

 

Now I have just gone back to stock, with no assists on.

 

I try and watch my speed to be within the limits, but Im just

not doing so well and I wont give up, but it just very frustrating.

 

Im not even doing that well in single player anymore, but its much

better then multiplayer, at least I can take off once in awhile.

 

I read that someone had changed something in the lua file that had

to do with left wing going down.

 

I have tried slow roll and build up speed, I have tried brakes on

and 25 rpm and full throttle and it seems going faster is a little better.

 

I really like the Dora a LOT and would like to fly it more in

multiplayer and I just need to find out what Im doing wrong.

 

Ill go fly and capture it and be back with what Im doing so you can see.

 

I really appreciate the help, and am glad there are people who are nice here.

 

 

 

*************************************************************************

 

 

up and down I actually got up and was too busy to change flaps and gear

up and down2 is what happens most of the time to me.

 

I had similar problems with the Dora. The cause of the problem as I see it, is the high torque of the propeller which makes the beast want to veer left and to roll over to the left. I tried to do it with rev rate reduced reduced to 2000 RPM, and managed to take off most of the time, but but any gust of wind would have tipped me over.

It works fine for me now based on these points:

1. Rev it up to 3000 RPM before I relinquish the brakes

2. Watch the dashed centerline on the runway and use the right-hand wheelbrake gently when I move away from it.

3. From the start, pull the joystick to about 5 o'clock to keep the rear wheel locked and keep the right wing from going up

4. At around 150 km/h gently move the joystick forward but keep it well to the right

5. As I get near 200 km/h the Dora starts lifting off all by itself. It wants to rise too fast and I have to push the stick gently forward to prevent it from doing that. I think this behaviour is due to the high angle of attack which it has when on the ground.

6. Let it go up a little and then retract the gear, retract the flaps, switch the MW50 on and increase to full throttle to climb quickly to cruising altitude.

 

Note: I'm still struggling with the landing process and have broken landing gear and proellers many time, but gradually I seem to be getting there

 

Good luck, or "Hals und Beinbruch" as we say in German

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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Thank You all VERY much for all of the help. I was reading in the manual that the emergency

power button can be used for take off...... I have not tried that but I will just for the

heck of it.

 

I am getting a little better and yesterday I landed ok for the first time !!!

 

I really appreciate the help as I really like the Dora !

 

I was stationed in Schwetzingen, West Germany from 72-75 and

I liked Heidelberg very much as I was use to college towns like Yale in New Haven.

 

I am determined to get better with the FW-190D and practice is what helps !!

 

auf wiedersehen

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  • ED Team

A hint for a good landing: the main mistake is wrong altitude estimation for flaring and/or ballooning, so, as you start to flare, adjust the plane attitude for about a couple degrees less than for three-point attitude and let the plane sink a little. In the case of two points touchdown with this attitude the bouncing will be not so violent, and in the case of increasing sink rate due to speed bleeding you have these spare degrees to slow or stop sinking and have good three point landing.

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Your video is *Private*?

"A true 'sandbox flight sim' requires hi-fidelity flyable non-combat utility/support aircraft."

Wishlist Terrains - Bigger maps

Wishlist Modules - A variety of utility aircraft to better reflect the support role. E.g. Flying the Hornet ... big yawn ... flying a Caribou on a beer run to Singapore? Count me in. Extracting a Recon Patrol from a hastily prepared landing strip at a random 6 figure grid reference? Now yer talking!

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