AH-1 S or W? What do you want?

[Sajonez]

Oldschool G version ( HueyCobra) was very fine attack helicopter and improvement over UH-1 Huey gunships. Its job was to escort Huey Slicks to the LZ, clear the LZ from the potential threats, cover the drops and support troops on the ground. It had only unguided rockets, M-134 gatling guns or grenade launchers. I would like to have it in DCS but you also have to think what we actually need.

 

UH-1H is so vulnerable helicopter in our war theatre because of different kinds of AA weapons or armor vehicles which cant be effectively engaged and destroyed by Huey helicopters. You have to cooperate with A-10s or Su-25s. We need something with guided missiles like TOW missiles. AH-1Z is too modern for our theatre so only AH-1S(F) or W comes into consideration.

[VincentLaw]

how satisfied is everyone satisfied with that being he outcome?

I would prefer the AH-1T, but the AH-1F is much better than the AH-1G. I am still hoping for a fictional USMC livery for naval ops until we get something more appropriate. In any case, I seem to be in the minority that actually prefers the AH-1 over the AH-64.
Edited October 6, 2014 by VincentLaw

[MBot]

In any case, I seem to be in the minority that actually prefers the AH-1 over the AH-64.

 

You are not alone, though we are the minority for sure. I prefer the Cobra because it is actually quite vulnerable, while still being a formidable tank killer. The TOW missile is slow and rather short ranged, forcing the Cobra to get close and expose itselfe. This means tactical flying is more important, which in my eyes is better for gameplay. The AH-64 and the Ka-50 for that matter have more leverage, sitting off at 8 km and plinking tanks from safety. A useful capability in reality for sure, but also less fun.

 

Of course the question wether the AH-1F can be employed according to real world tactcis will depend a lot on pending DCS-core improvements. In order for pop-up ambushes to work, the visual detection model for the ground AI has to be completely revamped. There is no hide-and-seek and no surprise effect if the AI is omni-aware. So there has to be a model for probability of detection which includes factors such time to detection, offset angle, angular size (combination of target size, range and aspect), angular movement, skylining etc. And for platoon or company operations, AI "attention" would also be significant. This would alow for distraction tactics (one elements engages first with cannon\rockets to draw target attention, second element engages unnoticed from flanks with TOW). Another important effect for AI would be suppression effects, both for infantry and armored vehicles (area fire forces armor to button up, which greatly decreases its all around situation awareness). Suppression is one of the major uses of the gun and rockets when engaging armor, to suppress defensive fire by the target long enough to engage with TOW.

 

And obviously trees should be solid as well :)

 

So I think there is still penty to do to create a realistic combat environment for the Cobra to operate in. But I am very excited that a TOW-Cobra is actually comming and we are hopefuly getting there.

[shagrat]

'w' no doubt! This all really started for me with EF2000, Jet III, "Lock On - MODERN air combat" etc. the later transformed and updated into DCS. Though I appreciate EDs love for the old and rusty legends of air combat, but I can't see any of them fighting a Strela or a BMP-3 platoon for more than a few minutes...

 

My personal wants are modern air combat planes and helicopters. The AH-1W will go nicely with the upcoming Strait of Hormuz map / Iraq scenario, as we can't have the 'Z' :notworthy:

Edited October 9, 2014 by shagrat

[Raptor9]

Of course the question wether the AH-1F can be employed according to real world tactcis will depend a lot on pending DCS-core improvements. In order for pop-up ambushes to work, the visual detection model for the ground AI has to be completely revamped. There is no hide-and-seek and no surprise effect if the AI is omni-aware. So there has to be a model for probability of detection which includes factors such time to detection, offset angle, angular size (combination of target size, range and aspect), angular movement, skylining etc. And for platoon or company operations, AI "attention" would also be significant. This would alow for distraction tactics (one elements engages first with cannon\rockets to draw target attention, second element engages unnoticed from flanks with TOW). Another important effect for AI would be suppression effects, both for infantry and armored vehicles (area fire forces armor to button up, which greatly decreases its all around situation awareness). Suppression is one of the major uses of the gun and rockets when engaging armor, to suppress defensive fire by the target long enough to engage with TOW.

 

And obviously trees should be solid as well :)

 

MBot, it's almost as if you're campaigning your pre-built mission scripts, lol. All kidding aside however, I agree with the above post (minus the part about preferring the cobra over the apache, ha ha). And at the risk of being slightly OT here, I've used those scripts in my missions before, very nice.

[MBot]

MBot, it's almost as if you're campaigning your pre-built mission scripts, lol. All kidding aside however, I agree with the above post (minus the part about preferring the cobra over the apache, ha ha). And at the risk of being slightly OT here, I've used those scripts in my missions before, very nice.

 

Well, I wrote my scripts because these are some of my pet issues with DCS. But I see the scripts more as illustrations what improvements are possible even with very limited means. They are ultimately stop-gap measurements until proper improvements are hard coded into DCS.

 

Now with another attack helicopter on the horizon, I think it becomes time for an in depth revision of the ground AI, which has seen little improvements for many years. After all this is the primary means for the player of helicopters/mud-movers to interact with the game world in combat. The fighter pilot requires a complex AI to provide an opponent in dogfights and BVR combat (or alternatively plays against other humans). So for air-ground the player should equally find an AI that not only serves as target or omni-potent air defense, but to do combat with in a believable manner. While I appreciate that we have a working ALT GEN switch, what is much more important to me is that real world tactics work in combat and I have to apply them to be successful. Hopefully a Belsimtek AH-1 will provide the opportunity for ED for improvements in the ground AI.

[Raven68]

Looks Like W it is!! :D

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=367

[audax]

This is nice. I really hope that they fix up their other modules before the SuperCobra is released, so I can buy it without undermining my own position ;)

[Paganus]

Looks Like W it is!! :D

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=367

 

Wow!

 

I wasn't expecting this.

 

I love it though!

[kontiuka]

Looks Like W it is!! :D

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=367

Maybe not completely official but a nice sign.

[ff4life4]

What is going on. ..

[GeorgeLKMT]

Maybe not completely official but a nice sign.

 

Is this official enough? ;) http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2204349&postcount=47

[NineLine]

What is going on. ..

 

BST is listening to their customers ;)

[outlawal2]

Is this official enough? ;) http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2204349&postcount=47

 

I don't know, is it? I have no idea what the hell that says...

 

A hint maybe when linking to threads in foreign languages?

:helpsmilie:

[Paradox]

I don't know, is it? I have no idea what the hell that says...

 

A hint maybe when linking to threads in foreign languages?

:helpsmilie:

 

The upshot appears to be that the AH-1W is the variant chosen but it will take a longer period of time to develop than the AH-1G would have.

[outlawal2]

The upshot appears to be that the AH-1W is the variant chosen but it will take a longer period of time to develop than the AH-1G would have.

 

Ahh thank you for that... :thumbup:

 

Well shouldn't be a surprise that the W would take longer to develop as it is MUCH more advanced than the previous models so systems will be a challenge for sure..

 

I like that decision even with the longer timeframe...

[Fri13]

Oldschool G version ( HueyCobra) was very fine attack helicopter and improvement over UH-1 Huey gunships. Its job was to escort Huey Slicks to the LZ, clear the LZ from the potential threats, cover the drops and support troops on the ground. It had only unguided rockets, M-134 gatling guns or grenade launchers. I would like to have it in DCS but you also have to think what we actually need.

 

UH-1H is so vulnerable helicopter in our war theatre because of different kinds of AA weapons or armor vehicles which cant be effectively engaged and destroyed by Huey helicopters. You have to cooperate with A-10s or Su-25s. We need something with guided missiles like TOW missiles. AH-1Z is too modern for our theatre so only AH-1S(F) or W comes into consideration.

What we need is improved infantry modeling. Easy way to get squads and platoons of soldiers and get them patrol, guard, hangout, attack, defend and retreat and then of course mount and unmount from different vehicles (even if they just appears out of vehicle in begin) and command them as squads/platoons via CA module.

 

It would be awesome then for Huey to do different missions dropping sniper pairs acting JTAC behind enemy lines or rescue squads or support them.

 

Of course that would require a more complex terrain (more noise to height map) so there would be some cover for infantry, and on areas where there is a grass, make soldiers semitransparent or even transparent for vehicles when infantry lay down.

 

Just something like what steel beast simulator has, no need to be fancy or anything like operation flashpoint was (or if it would, it would be more than enough).

 

One day I am hoping to see ground vehicles crews to be added too, running out of damaged vehicles, regrouping and running away from enemy etc. Just to give more reasons to fly UH-1H or use machine gun in ground vehicles etc.

 

Another dream is one day infantry can be moving next to buildings (for cover) and some cases man the building roofs and fire toward helicopters. It would make helicopter pilots nightmare come true.

 

Then sitting in cobra and supporting other units against soft targets would come very pleasing.

[Neon67]

The upshot appears to be that the AH-1W is the variant chosen but it will take a longer period of time to develop than the AH-1G would have.

 

Two weeks, easy :music_whistling:

 

W is the best choice, thanks BST, I definitly look forward to this one :pilotfly:

[Fri13]

I would prefer the AH-1T, but the AH-1F is much better than the AH-1G. I am still hoping for a fictional USMC livery for naval ops until we get something more appropriate. In any case, I seem to be in the minority that actually prefers the AH-1 over the AH-64.

I just got stronger opinion change myself that I want to see cobra more likely than apache. As apache is pretty "boring" (even when my favorite AH).

Next to waiting list on helicopters front is to get KA-50 finalized (like IR jammer, windshield wipers and heaters etc with EDGE) and Mi-24P or Mi-24V and these after Cobra.

 

The cobra does look nice and has impressive weaponry for DCS world and Co-Op cockpit makes it very interesting challenge.

[MBot]

Looks Like W it is!! :D

 

Awww, so no steam gauges tank hunter. But while the AH-1F is my favorite helicopter, it is hard to not be happy with the AH-1W. I guess it also fits a lot better in the new naval environment, which I guess will see some major additions in the future.

[genbrien]

What is the major difference between the Whisky and Zulu version (appart the nts)

[Fri13]

What is the major difference between the Whisky and Zulu version (appart the nts)

Usable weapons like AIM-9 on wing tips, longbow radar pod on wingtips, "glass cockpit", helmet projected display, laser guided weapons (can launch Hellfires), four blade rotor instead two, increased speed, vertical climb, radar jamming, IR exhaust suppressors, missile incoming -warning system and overall upgrades avionics to 2x 8*6" MCFD.

 

Unless I now mistake some (if not all).

[VincentLaw]

Usable weapons like AIM-9 on wing tips, laser guided weapons (can launch Hellfires)

Maybe you are comparing with the wrong helicopter. The AH-1W can also launch the AIM-9 and Hellfires, but it only has 4 hardpoints. The AH-1Z has 6 hardpoints.

 

So the AH-1W can carry 8 Hellfires, 4 Hellfires and 1 AIM-9, or 2 AIM-9s. The AH-1Z can carry 16 Hellfires and 2 AIM-9s.

Edited October 14, 2014 by VincentLaw

[ff4life4]

Ah-1w is going to be an awesome addition to dcs. Especially with the new map, and edge. Hellfires, tows, rockets, 20mm cannon, IR capabilities, possibly aim9 not sure it was ever fielded though.

 

Gonna be a true killer in DCS.

 

I just wonder about how the dual cockpit will work. In know we will be getting the implementation of 2 players soon, but I still hope they will figure some way it will still be usable by one player

Edited October 14, 2014 by ff4life4

[Buzzles]

Two engines! Wooo!