A2A target spotting nearly impossible

[wolle]

The Sabre module is awesome, and air-to-air engagements are tons of fun.

 

However, I have the toughest time finding other planes in the sky.:(

 

I know that this is generally tough in DCS. However, I have also been flying P51 vs. Dora battles, and there it seems much, much easier to spot enemy planes at distance. Am I just imagining this, or could it be that the P51D and Dora have better optimized scaling with distance than the Mig-15 and F86? Or are they tougher to spot because of their higher speed, or lighter paint,..

 

I thought I bring up this point, since I think this puts a major damper on the Sabre module at the moment.

[311Gryphon]

I honestly have a ton of trouble finding anything in DCS. That's probably fairly realistic especially since most things are easier in real life just because you have more 3 dimensional awareness and force feed back etc. My biggest issue with A-10C is finding targets even with the lightning pod.

 

Having said that, I've found that so far I can find bandits by checking the map and heading more or less toward them. That only works if they show up on the map off course, but you can eventually see the little dots and close with them. I think one big thing to keep in mind; however, is that if your flying the F86 and you're merging with a MiG-15 your merge speed is going to be higher than if you're in a P-51/190 merge so you have less time to find the enemy and adjust before you miss them.

 

I have had a lot of fun loading up a flight of Sabers and going up against a flight of MiGs. I haven't had much luck but it's fun to watch the streak of coal coming out of your wingman's tailpipe and you join the wagon wheel of death.

[Sceptre]

Yeah I also have a huge problem spotting air contacts, especially P-51 vs FW-190, so I tend just to stick to helicopters :)

[theGozr]

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101143&page=17

[IonicRipper]

Same problem here. I really hope EDGE will fix this.

[Flagrum]

Yeah I also have a huge problem spotting air contacts, especially P-51 vs FW-190, so I tend just to stick to helicopters :)

:thumbup:

 

That's one reason why I consider myself an attack pilot (and rotorhead) ... as ground targets tend to be slower and usually only move on a 2d plane! :o)

[Sabre-TLA]

I recommend a bigger monitor.

 

Once you go big you'll never go back.

 

I use a 47" LG with hdmi inputs and it's much easier to spot targets on the larger screen both air and ground targets IMO.

 

I used to use labels (dot reference) but since going to the larger monitor it's not a problem seeing targets without labels.

[NeilWillis]

Some of the guys on the ATAG server recommend reducing the resolution your monitor displays in. That has a positive effect on target detection range I am told. It might be worth a try in DCS.

 

I have gone down the large monitor size route, and I can definitely recommend that approach too.

[bigcountry]

I have a 42" monitor and I am having trouble spotting air targets/ ED issue not monitor

[TRITATUTTO]

Me too , i can see nothing now , ground targets with this ground texture are impossible to spot even with a tv sensor like shval and tgp , and air to air.......the planes are invisible , too too small to see even with zoom , nearly impossible to spot.

[firmek]

Let's wait for the 2.5 and new rendering engine which will bring much better lighting. This should introduce more contrast to the environment and unit models.

Apart of that there are some issues with the LOD (level of detail) algorithm that doesn't render the objects in further distances but still not being far enough to be potentially not visible. Hopefully this issue is also being addressed for 2.5.

I would not strive for changes in current 1.5 and 2.0 versions while the 2.5 is just across the corner. The other problem is that the currently available solution to increase the size of the units doesn't help at all. Much better concept is probably to play with the contrast of the units and make sure that they are not removed from the rendering queue in further distances rather than increase their size dramatically but still make them appear as a grey smear on the screen.

[Talisman_VR]

I think I agree with most of what you are saying, but the grey smear, as you put it, on the screen is just such a disappointment and is the main reason I have for feeling very underwhelmed by the new engine to date (I use version 1.5). I am desperately hoping for something better before fully committing to DCS in the way I would like too.

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

[Legioneod]

Spotting is impossible for me as well, my buddy gets aggravated because I always lose contact with him because he goes invisible even though he's close.

 

I hope they improve the spotting to a rise of flight level at least.

[QuiGon]

Have you guys tried to activate model enlargement in the game settings?

[SharkBait]

Let's wait for the 2.5 and new rendering engine which will bring much better lighting. This should introduce more contrast to the environment and unit models.

Apart of that there are some issues with the LOD (level of detail) algorithm that doesn't render the objects in further distances but still not being far enough to be potentially not visible. Hopefully this issue is also being addressed for 2.5.

I would not strive for changes in current 1.5 and 2.0 versions while the 2.5 is just across the corner. The other problem is that the currently available solution to increase the size of the units doesn't help at all. Much better concept is probably to play with the contrast of the units and make sure that they are not removed from the rendering queue in further distances rather than increase their size dramatically but still make them appear as a grey smear on the screen.

 

Now that 2.5 is out, have you noticed a difference in aircraft spotting? I've only started playing DCS last week, so have no reference point to prior versions, but I do agree that spotting in DCS is incredibly difficult compared to other flight sims I've played.

 

I only have the P-51 Mustang mod at the moment, so have been sticking to WWII mostly. I created myself a simple mission to fight a bunch of 109s and 190s (since WWII servers are so sparsely populated). I had about 20 109s in the mission take off from Anapa, while I had an air start near Novorossiysk. When I approached Anapa from about 18,000 ft altitude and looked down to spot the 109s, I saw nothing. When I hit Shift + F10 to turn on labels, I nearly jumped out of my seat because there were 20 109s within a few miles of me, all lower.

 

So I paused the game and decided to focus my view, full zoom, on one 109. I removed the labels and unpaused and tried my best to follow it. It was incredibly difficult and I lost sight of in a couple seconds because the "dot" is not consistent, either. It blends into the ground texture so quickly. Spotting was basically impossible using normal zoom, which I feel like shouldn't be the case since I would presume that one should be able to see aircraft within a few miles without using binoculars.

 

This is in contrast to other games (e.g., IL2) in which I can see contacts 10km+ away, and can certainly make out aircraft against the ground.

 

This is a bit disheartening because I was really looking forward to flying the P-51 at high altitude and pounce on my enemies. But it seems that it will be very difficult to take advantage of this tactic since I won't be able to find any of them until they are too close.

Edited February 7, 2018 by SharkBait

[animaal]

Spotting was basically impossible using normal zoom, which I feel like shouldn't be the case since I would presume that one should be able to see aircraft within a few miles without using binoculars.

 

I agree it's very difficult.

 

I assume that the aircraft sizes are properly calculated. Remember, at normal zoom you're seeing the whole front window of the cockpit on a computer monitor. In real life, that front window would fill a lot of your field of vision. I wonder if the planes would be easier to spot on a huuuuge monitor? (I only use a little 15" laptop screen, I haven't tried it)

 

I'm not sure what the solution is - ideally the plane sizes would vary with monitor size. But that's unlikely to be implemented, because I don't think a PC can reliably discover the size of a connected monitor. It would be open to cheating in multiplayer.

[SharkBait]

I agree it's very difficult.

 

I assume that the aircraft sizes are properly calculated. Remember, at normal zoom you're seeing the whole front window of the cockpit on a computer monitor. In real life, that front window would fill a lot of your field of vision. I wonder if the planes would be easier to spot on a huuuuge monitor? (I only use a little 15" laptop screen, I haven't tried it)

 

I'm not sure what the solution is - ideally the plane sizes would vary with monitor size. But that's unlikely to be implemented, because I don't think a PC can reliably discover the size of a connected monitor. It would be open to cheating in multiplayer.

 

Yes... Fortunately, it sounds like the developers are aware of the issue:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=199148

[tom_19d]

10 km away and you expect to see a piston single every time in every condition? That is over 5 nautical miles...you might get lucky now and then but even with a very timely traffic call from ATC most people won’t make that spot.

 

One of the reasons DCS is great is because it gives a realistic depiction of just how difficult it is for one pilot to spot another in small aircraft moving at great speeds. In particular, fighting in jets without labels is humbling and it SHOULD be. There is a reason only a fraction of a percentage of the human population can do it for real...

Edited February 8, 2018 by tom_19d

[Nosferatuwhisky 1-1]

It’s hrs enough spotting GA aircraft while in the air, and people are expecting to spot planes specifically painted to be harder to spot against both both sky and ground.

 

It’s tough as it should be.

[SharkBait]

tom_19d and Astor87,

 

Didn't mean to offend either of you guys. I agree that spotting is not meant to be easy and it's part of the fun of playing in sim mode vs. "arcade." I actually had a better time spotting yesterday and I do agree that it's a skill that can be learned.

 

Cheers,

SharkBait

[ZnarF]

Spotting is not easy, ok. I've the "fortune" to live in an area of military planes passage (A10, M2000, C130, helis...), and frequently ultra-lights aircraft the sundays. Spotting them is clearly easier than is DCS. Really easier. Even with ultra-lights. And without speaking of the Airbus far far away. With a (little) Mirage for example, even from far you see "something", and that "something" is quite consistant.

Edited February 8, 2018 by ZnarF

[tom_19d]

Not at all Sharkbait, if I came off as offended that was unintentional, I didn’t mean to sound harsh. Safe flying and good luck, I hope DCS provides you as much entertainment as it has me!

 

Cheers

[Robert31178]

There's some things though in real life that we miss here. The obvious one is, of course, the fact that it's an image and not real life, but aside from that you don't get the little things we've all read about, like sunlight glints off of nearly invisible planes, or the slight movement that catches a fighter pilot's eye when he is hunting.

 

Something else - how long have you been playing? I know the graphics are "antique" compared to DCS, but hear me out: I play IL2 1946 series for YEARS, well over a decade. It took me some time, again years, before I could consistently spot other aircraft while hunting on servers. I struggle in DCS to spot airplanes even when I know they are there!! 2.5 cleaned it up a little for me, and if I am lower I can see a speck reasonable well, but heck I lose my flight lead constantly lol....I know that once my eye gets trained to spot DCS stuff I'll be fine, just like I was in IL2 after a long while.