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F-86 gunnery advice versus Mig-15


Antorian

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I've been trying to build up my gunnery skills with the f-86 but its been quite the challenge. I was wondering if anyone would have advice getting their eye in on a mig-15.

 

First, I'm not sure what the measurement for the sight's wingspan marker is but I've been working on the assumption that their in feet and have set it to 33.

 

Next, I've been practicing with the A-4 gunsight using the automatic range finding. I find it doesn't settle down until about .4nm at best. And when it's stable I seem to always be shooting high so is my wing span setting wrong? is the gunsight just not as magic as it should be? should I just be trying to use the sight as a static aiming instrument? is there a way to set convergence? Any tips would be helpful.

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You shouldn't need to set the wingspan, as far as I know that's only if the radar or gunsight is damaged or something.

 

I think that might be reversed. I know the sight will figure range but you have to set the wingspan. You can see this by playing with the wingspan while the sight is settled down. you will see the sight change size as you adjust it.

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The wingspan is just necessary if you don't have the radar available.

 

It alows you to judge the range by setting the wingspan first, and then adjusting the range until the circle arround the piper matches the wingspan of the target.

 

This is the same system as in the P-51 and is obsolete in normal operation, because the radar will give you the range as well.

 

However, you can set the wingspan to give yourselfe a backup.

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I think you'll find that setting the wingspan of an aircraft in a gun sight is a way of gauging the range to the target - i.e. when the wing tips touch the sides of the sight ring, you have the correct firing solution because the wing tip setting has given you a guide to the optimum range.

 

With a radar range finding sight, why would you need to use wing span range estimation? You set the wingspan as a backup, it plays no role in radar range finding, but in the event of the sight range finder becoming inoperative, it gives an alternate method.

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regardless of if the sight needs the wingspan set or not (which I believe it does) does anyone have any gunnery tips? Ideas on how to best approach getting your shots on target? Any ideas on deflection shots?

Windows 10

Intel Core i5 4670k CPU 3.4 GHz

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MSI RTX 2080 Gaming X Trio

Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog

TrackIR 4

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I think you'll find that setting the wingspan of an aircraft in a gun sight is a way of gauging the range to the target - i.e. when the wing tips touch the sides of the sight ring, you have the correct firing solution because the wing tip setting has given you a guide to the optimum range.

 

With a radar range finding sight, why would you need to use wing span range estimation? You set the wingspan as a backup, it plays no role in radar range finding, but in the event of the sight range finder becoming inoperative, it gives an alternate method.

 

All setting the wingspan does with a radar lock is to ensure the Reticle automatically scales down to subtend the wingtips as range reduces.

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regardless of if the sight needs the wingspan set or not (which I believe it does) does anyone have any gunnery tips? Ideas on how to best approach getting your shots on target? Any ideas on deflection shots?

 

I have had the best luck with shots that at least have some AoT. If I'm lined up for a tracking shot (wing loading and keeping the pipper on the bandit) it's ideal for me to have maybe 20 degrees AoT, so I can "saw" the bandit and hit something up front. Alternately, if the pipper is out ahead of the nose, I back off the stick pressure some so he flies through the sight, and the hits walk into the forward half of the aircraft. Almost like a lead shot, but with some actual tracking.

 

Straight up six o'clock shots have yielded pretty crummy results for me. A lot of smoke, not much else. There just doesn't seem to be much back there worth shooting at. The wing root area is a real sweet spot, as well as the fuselage all around that spot -so if you can see some of his flank, that's promising. If you are at high six staring right down the spine, however; you're gonna have to walk the shots up to the canopy. If your line is off to one wing, I wouldn't even waste the ammo. Don't shoot the wings unless you can hit into the root. I suppose any hits on him are better than no hits, but so far it has only made pretty smoke trails for me. The MiG will, however, have little trouble chopping your wing off with a few hits from the cannons regardless of where.

 

 

One thing that might help is to take a slightly offset position on his six instead of right on his tail. If he pulls to your side, you'll raise your nose to hit his flank. If he pulls away from you, you'll get the high six "spine" shot as you follow. Sometimes they seem to be asleep at the controls and don't do anything. A burst from dead six probably wont be lethal, but it should get him moving around.

 

As might be expected, lead shots and snap shots are actually pretty lethal because they are front oriented shots. Here your little .50 calibers are actually advantageous, as the high rate of fire increases the chance of a hit up front in what is a very short firing window. I've had a few head-ons so far where the pipper was buried in the nose and I shot anyway. I was pleasantly surprised to turn my head and see I had flamed him. Conversely, I have maybe twice been hit by a MiG-15 in a merge, not affecting the performance of my A/C. So don't waste those merge opportunities where he disappears under the nose. Give a short burst and hope for the best.

 

Hope that helps, now for the sight thing...

 

Without the wingspan set correctly, you would be unable to tell if the bandit is at the range you have set for the sight to be true ...unless of course you have a radar to find that range for you. ;) So the ring won't be the correct size, but that's it. The only reasons for setting the wingspan are so you can tell when the bandit is at the range that you have manually set into the sight, or so you can "find" his range by sliding the range dial until the inner ring matches the size of the wingspan. With radar ranging none of that matters. The center dot (where your shots land) will be in the exact same place regardless of the size of the ring. One might even want to purposefully set the wingspan too big to make it more visible. I hate smashing my face into the glass to find it when I'm loading the wings.


Edited by Zychon
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Next, I've been practicing with the A-4 gunsight using the automatic range finding. I find it doesn't settle down until about .4nm at best. And when it's stable I seem to always be shooting high so is my wing span setting wrong? is the gunsight just not as magic as it should be? should I just be trying to use the sight as a static aiming instrument? is there a way to set convergence? Any tips would be helpful.

 

The shots land right on the dot for me. This may be obvious, but just in case:

 

1) Keep in mind the gyroscopic sight only works when you track. That is to say: when you manipulate the nose of your A/C to hold the pipper on the target. It is oblivious to the bandits trajectory and speed, you need to help it by holding it on the bandit.

 

2) The shots will fall right on the dot. Do not lead. You might not think you are, but it's a natural instinct to lead the target with the sight.

 

3) If your sight is jumping, it's because your radar range rheostat is set to long. The radar is getting reflections from the ground/water and the reflection from the bandit is getting lost in the noise. Decreasing it will help by masking off the ground clutter. Think of it as a flashlight that you can control the length of the beam on. Unfortunately, there is no key binding for this that I know of, and you have to reach up and do it with the mouse.

 

I know of a lot of players who cage the gyro on the P-51 and the F-86 because it helps in lead shots. If you are performing a high deflection shot such as a lead shot, the sight will not come to rest at center until you unload the wings, and even then there seems to be a good deal of lag in its response. This robs you of a nice hard reference point while you are setting up the shot. I use the gyro though, because it greatly extends the reach of your guns. At ranges which would otherwise be very hard or impossible to gauge lead, your shots are right on the money. That's what made it such a deadly piece of technology. Others have to walk the stream of bullets onto the target, getting hits only where the paths converge. With the gyro, squeeze the trigger and they all hit home.

 

In the P-51D, you can set the sight to "fixed & gyro" so you get both. In the Sabre, you have to make do with the cage button.

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Zychon, thanks, this is good info. I fought a Mig 15 for the first time last night, got plenty of hits and smoked him but ran out of ammo and fuel before I could shoot him down. It was a looooong fight!

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The shots land right on the dot for me. This may be obvious, but just in case:

 

1) Keep in mind the gyroscopic sight only works when you track. That is to say: when you manipulate the nose of your A/C to hold the pipper on the target. It is oblivious to the bandits trajectory and speed, you need to help it by holding it on the bandit.

 

2) The shots will fall right on the dot. Do not lead. You might not think you are, but it's a natural instinct to lead the target with the sight.

 

3) If your sight is jumping, it's because your radar range rheostat is set to long. The radar is getting reflections from the ground/water and the reflection from the bandit is getting lost in the noise. Decreasing it will help by masking off the ground clutter. Think of it as a flashlight that you can control the length of the beam on. Unfortunately, there is no key binding for this that I know of, and you have to reach up and do it with the mouse.

 

I know of a lot of players who cage the gyro on the P-51 and the F-86 because it helps in lead shots. If you are performing a high deflection shot such as a lead shot, the sight will not come to rest at center until you unload the wings, and even then there seems to be a good deal of lag in its response. This robs you of a nice hard reference point while you are setting up the shot. I use the gyro though, because it greatly extends the reach of your guns. At ranges which would otherwise be very hard or impossible to gauge lead, your shots are right on the money. That's what made it such a deadly piece of technology. Others have to walk the stream of bullets onto the target, getting hits only where the paths converge. With the gyro, squeeze the trigger and they all hit home.

 

In the P-51D, you can set the sight to "fixed & gyro" so you get both. In the Sabre, you have to make do with the cage button.

 

Exactly the advice I was looking for. Thanks for the advice!

Windows 10

Intel Core i5 4670k CPU 3.4 GHz

16GB RAM

MSI RTX 2080 Gaming X Trio

Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog

TrackIR 4

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