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After landind, very difficult to keep the Sabre in the middle of the runway.


Skulleader

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Hello guys,

 

I have one little question about the F-86F after the landing, and it's very difficult to keep the Sabre in the middle of the runway.

If I use my brakes my F-86 makes an 180° or use wrong my rudder, is it one bug or normal because it's a real problem, no ?

 

Thanks again Skull.

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gotta be VERY gentle on the brakes....

 

I think I've dropped my axes so full deflection of the pedal =60% braking now.

 

I've also been playing with Aero-braking to help with slowing down,

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BST also recommend fully retracting the flaps before braking. Also braking very early on and gently... which makes for an interesting dance number right after touching down. :)

 

For me it gets hairy if I'm misaligned at touchdown. The rudder is not very responsive even at cruising speeds, so I'm tempted to engage the NWS. But at 145 KIAS, you've got to be very *very* careful. :D

 

FYI: Had some hydraulics system damage the other night and only the nose wheel would drop. I don't think the hyd emer release has been modeled yet. I came in set to no flaps, no airbrake, and setting her down tail-dragger stlye. She did fine.


Edited by Zychon
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Hello guys,

 

Thanks for your explanations but there's one thing that I do not understand is the flaps, why the flap interaction with the brakes ?

Can you explain better the reason ?

Thanks again. Skull

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I find it generally easier to pull the stick towards yourself when applying brakes because the main gears might lift just a little when braking which makes the A/C hard to control. Pulling the stick applies more friction between the wheels and the runway which will also help slow you down.

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Let the plane reduce his speed without brakes and just use some little rudder to keep the runway centerline. Always be gentle on your rudder, expecially if you're using pedals.

 

When below 90/100 knots start use the wheel break (W). Don't use the nosewheel steering (S) until your airspeed is below 50 knots. Differential brakes are useful for tight maneuvers on taxiway and parking. That's all.

 

Now about the flaps ... I really have no clue about their interaction with brakes.

IRL flaps must be used after the taxi so when on the runway and just before the takeoff run. This because debris on the taxiways may cause damage blocking them asymmetrically, and you really want to avoid this. However I have the F-86 original handbook and I must admit the TO procedure don't report this so pilots were instructed to use flaps even during taxi.

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Retracting the flaps before braking is often recommended during real world operations of small, general aviation aircraft, as a way to increase the weight on wheels, and therfore allowing for more brakeing friction and theirfore shorter stopping distances.

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Hello guys,

 

Thanks for your explanations, after many landings with the flaps full up it's very better for maintaining in runway centerline.

 

I think I've dropped my axes so full deflection of the pedal =60% braking now.

Please if it's possible can you give your rudder settings because when I touch my left and right brake the wheels are blocked quickly.

For information I use the Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals with my Warthog Hotas.

 

Skull.

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Please if it's possible can you give your rudder settings because when I touch my left and right brake the wheels are blocked quickly.

 

Ensure your wheel brake axis are not inverted. Ideally you do not want to brake the Sabre at all, ie no ABS/Anti-Skid etc etc so just get the nose down, flaps in, airbrake out and let the damsel roll out to the end of the runway. If you're not very good with the toebrakes just use the 'W' key for equal braking if you must.

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Am I the only one that touches down, and aero brakes until about 90-95 knots, then lowers the nose and raises the flaps?

 

Wheel brakes are sensitive and have no ABS, so they'll skid like crazy at higher speeds.

 

A-10C will do the same if you turn off the Anti-Skid system, touch down and immediately start using the toe brakes.

 

So, touch down, make sure flaps are up and airbrakes extended, roll out till about 70 knots keep nose wheel locked, then start to slowly apply brakes, at 70 knots it's prolly still a bit on the fast side for wheel brakes.

 

Aim for 60 or so and see how it goes. from 45-50 knots down, wheel brakes are pretty effective and can slow the Aircraft down pretty quick. it's the 130->65 or so you need to resist pressing the toe brakes,


Edited by SkateZilla

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Hello guys,

 

I have one little question about the F-86F after the landing, and it's very difficult to keep the Sabre in the middle of the runway.

If I use my brakes my F-86 makes an 180° or use wrong my rudder, is it one bug or normal because it's a real problem, no ?

 

Thanks again Skull.

 

I had this problem and found the brakes difficult to use both by pressing "W" which gives you full braking and locks them up and they are not very efficient when you do this and also mapping them to my combat rudder pedal toe brakes, but here I found I had to be very accurate and careful to press each one the same amount otherwise problems arose!

 

I've now fixed all these problems by mapping the second (left) throttle on my HOTAS Warthog to the brakes. I left the saturation x and y at 100% in the axis settings, and now have no problems stopping the Sabre after landing, even on short runways. It's surprising how little movement I need on the "throttle" to get really effective braking, and as I have mapped both to the throttle (there's 3 options under axis controls....left wheel, right wheel and "wheel brakes" meaning both of them which I mapped to the left throttle) they apply with equal force so no more dancing down the runway with 180 deg turns! and the brakes no longer lock up and skid, unless I apply too much brake and when the wheels do skid it really does effect the efficiency of the brakes a lot.

 

Hope this helps...... :joystick:

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Ensure your wheel brake axis are not inverted

No everything work fine and not inverted.

 

The problem is my toes brakes, too much sensible. If I touch a little bit my toes my wheels are blocked.

Yes I know the function of the Anti-Skid but with the F-86 when I touch and just a little bit my toes the wheels are blocked...

 

With a slow speed when I touch my toes brakes my wheels are blocked and I can ear the skid noise.

 

Not easy to found the good settings...

 

If you have other ideas it's with a great pleasure. Skull

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Hello guys,

 

Here one little and quick track where I takeoff and I landing.

Please can you watch the wheels and the method of braking for stop my F-86 ?

 

And please can you tell me if if it's normal to have my wheels blocked ?

Yes I know that I have no ABS or Anti-skid but in the reality the F-86 block his wheels ?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fo07x3susv99zmt/Brakes%20Test%2002.trk

 

And please can you tell me if if it's normal to have my wheels blocking ?

 

Thanks, Skull.

 

EDIT:

Here one other track but this time with the settings of Grizzly: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3seao6w1960zwbg/Brakes%20Test%2003.trk

Grizzly Settings:

Deadzone: 0

Saturation X: 100

Saturation Y: 33

Curvature: 0

Slider: ON

Invert: ON

On both wheels.

Please can you watch these 2 videos and tell me the best method or settings for you ?
Edited by Skulleader
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Retracting the flaps before braking is often recommended during real world operations of small, general aviation aircraft, as a way to increase the weight on wheels, and therfore allowing for more brakeing friction and theirfore shorter stopping distances.

 

This was my assumption too. Reducing any "residual" lift.

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Hello guys,

 

Here one little and quick track where I takeoff and I landing.

Please can you watch the wheels and the method of braking for stop my F-86 ?

 

And please can you tell me if if it's normal to have my wheels blocked ?

Yes I know that I have no ABS or Anti-skid but in the reality the F-86 block his wheels ?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fo07x3susv99zmt/Brakes%20Test%2002.trk

 

And please can you tell me if if it's normal to have my wheels blocking ?

 

Thanks, Skull.

 

EDIT:

Here one other track but this time with the settings of Grizzly: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3seao6w1960zwbg/Brakes%20Test%2003.trk

Please can you watch these 2 videos and tell me the best method or settings for you ?

 

I dont have the time for watching your tracks at the moment, but you really should just use what you think feels the best.

If you have problems with sensitive locking brakes with allmost no input at all, use my settings. Maybe tweak them a little. Or dont.. Your choice.

 

With this settings I need to be full on the brakes to get them to block. Without them, I only needed to push my toes down like 20-30% and they would start to lock. That means there is about 70% of braketravel I couldnt use for anything.


Edited by <Grizzly>
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