Jump to content

Su-25 tactics againts SAM units


Airbuster

Recommended Posts

Ok, I'm having this problem - I'm stuck in the middle of the Su-25 campaign.

I have to destroy an artillery unit guarded by Rolland SAM. I'm trying to hit the SAM with laser guided missile - kh-25ml, but the damn thing is having longer range and always fires before I'm able to fire my missile. So how do I fight this and other similar SAMs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Normally the Kh-25 should out-range the Roland missiles (10+km <> 8km), but still you have to stay approaching until the missile impacts. Somehow they drop below after 6-7km and mostly they don't hit where the laser is pointing at anymore.

 

If you know there's no other AAA or SAM in it's vicinity you could try a very low approach just above the ground / trees, although this might be hard against Rolands as they were designed to fight such low-alt targets. I don't know how well they're doing this in DCS though as I tend to fight the russian anti air systems most of the time, even with the Su-25 :D

 

Another thing you could do is dry them out if your fuel allows for it. IIRC the Roland has 2 tubes that can be reloaded 4 times each = 10 shots. Come in at 2000-3000m, watch it directly or with your radar warning device until it fires off, then just stay calm, roll ~135° to either side, preferably the one you know there's no other hostile waiting for you, and pull into a dive. Just like a Split S, but not staight down. Pull out late, but of course not too late. Normally that should have made the SAM run directly into the ground because it tries to lead turn into your flight path, or it even causes a lock break as soon as you get low enough, therefore it's possible that they try a second launch that also won't hit. At least that's what I've seen every now and then while doing this technique against Osas.

Climb up to 2k+ and repeat until you don't get shot at anymore and keep grinning while you bust him up at point blank distance with either your cannon or any dumb stuff like rocket pods or even bombs.

But keep in mind, this takes quite some fuel and depending on the mission it even might be possible for some interceptors to come to your target area that make your day even harder. Best stay at 90% RPM max. to increase your endurance. The Frog will be more sluggish while climbing back up and turning against the targets again with stuff at the hardpoints, but it definately gives you a lot of more loiter time.

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Normally the Kh-25 should out-range the Roland missiles (10+km <> 8km), but still you have to stay approaching until the missile impacts. Somehow they drop below after 6-7km and mostly they don't hit where the laser is pointing at anymore.

 

If you know there's no other AAA or SAM in it's vicinity you could try a very low approach just above the ground / trees, although this might be hard against Rolands as they were designed to fight such low-alt targets. I don't know how well they're doing this in DCS though as I tend to fight the russian anti air systems most of the time, even with the Su-25 :D

 

Another thing you could do is dry them out if your fuel allows for it. IIRC the Roland has 2 tubes that can be reloaded 4 times each = 10 shots. Come in at 2000-3000m, watch it directly or with your radar warning device until it fires off, then just stay calm, roll ~135° to either side, preferably the one you know there's no other hostile waiting for you, and pull into a dive. Just like a Split S, but not staight down. Pull out late, but of course not too late. Normally that should have made the SAM run directly into the ground because it tries to lead turn into your flight path, or it even causes a lock break as soon as you get low enough, therefore it's possible that they try a second launch that also won't hit. At least that's what I've seen every now and then while doing this technique against Osas.

Climb up to 2k+ and repeat until you don't get shot at anymore and keep grinning while you bust him up at point blank distance with either your cannon or any dumb stuff like rocket pods or even bombs.

But keep in mind, this takes quite some fuel and depending on the mission it even might be possible for some interceptors to come to your target area that make your day even harder. Best stay at 90% RPM max. to increase your endurance. The Frog will be more sluggish while climbing back up and turning against the targets again with stuff at the hardpoints, but it definately gives you a lot of more loiter time.

 

+1 for this tactic.

 

Attacking artillery with heavy S-8s (can't remember if it was KOM or something else) will do the trick quite easily as long as you are accurate.

 

You will probably want to load external fuel tanks so that you will have full tank to skate around with the SAM. If the SAM has a ammo truck near by, then you'll have about 10 minutes before it will rearm and shoot you down.

314-я смешанная авиационная дивизия

314th Mixed Aviation Division: The "Fighting Lemmings"- Forums: http://314thsquadron.enjin.com/ - ED Forum Group: http://forums.eagle.ru/group.php?groupid=119

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the kh-25 FM is bugged right now, it has too short range.

Maybe toss bombing with couple of fab-500´s or very low altitude attack?

 

The Kh-25ML's performance in DCS changed radically when they introduced the advanced flight models for missiles.

 

It went from a max usable range of about 12 km (using a Shkval system on a Su-25T) to a usable range of maybe 6-8 km now. Usually 6 or less in my experience.

 

The aerodynamic modeling is greatly improved, the question is if the data they have for the missile characteristics is correct or if there are factors in the real missile's aerodynamics that are odd enough that their generalized model doesn't approximate them well.

 

No idea what the answers to that are. It's possible that with the old model the Kh-25ML was unrealistic, and now it's correct.

 

What ever the case is, it is no longer a good stand off missile in DCS.

 

To the options of baiting missiles till the launcher runs dry and going in fast and low (I'd recommend cluster containers), I'll add this: Use the mission editor to grab some command authority and send in a SEAD flight before you hit the target.

Callsign "Auger". It could mean to predict the future or a tool for boring large holes.

 

I combine the two by predictably boring large holes in the ground with my plane.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

I think Eldur's tactics are the best one's you can deploy when fighting a SAM system right now.

 

Forcing it to launch missile after missile until it's empty is the only way you can do it safely and may the only tactic that works later on when you fight systems that intercept homing missiles.

 

My favourite joy in DCS are SEAD missions against Patriots or S-300's and those you cannot attack directly with a launch-and-win in 1 go. You need multiple runs with rearming and refuelling

so that you empty the Patriot launchers and it's subordinated SAMs 1 by 1, after 20-30 missiles you will get her down, seldom before.

 

Takes like 2-4h to destroy 1 Patriot site with at least 4-5 runs on the bigger missions on 104th for example.

 

One the other hand, when flying with others you can try to spam the defence systems with 4 Su-25 (T) and launch all you got together as soon as in range.

I have made a mission to test this and spamming works but needs at least 4 attackers to make sense.

 

Bit


Edited by BitMaster

Gigabyte Aorus X570S Master - Ryzen 5900X - Gskill 64GB 3200/CL14@3600/CL14 - Asus 1080ti EK-waterblock - 4x Samsung 980Pro 1TB - 1x Samsung 870 Evo 1TB - 1x SanDisc 120GB SSD - Heatkiller IV - MoRa3-360LT@9x120mm Noctua F12 - Corsair AXi-1200 - TiR5-Pro - Warthog Hotas - Saitek Combat Pedals - Asus PG278Q 27" QHD Gsync 144Hz - Corsair K70 RGB Pro - Win11 Pro/Linux - Phanteks Evolv-X 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...