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F15 Tactics


Tricky11

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Guys i have been playing online for a while now with the f15 and have tried all sorts of things but my kill to death ratio is terrible. I mean im lucky if i shoot down one enemy to every 25 times i get shot down. Is there a way i can find out where the enemy is with out them knowing i am tracking them? I just seems as though they can sneak up behind me with out me knowing they are there??

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Obviously you need to get relatively close to the enemy to detect them passively (visually) but after that point there's no problem sneaking behind the enemy if you manage to get close undetected. Doing it purposely from a long range head on initial setup is hard and usually you get close to the enemy because of some kind of confusion after initial volleys from multiple aircrafts. There's also notching but it's hard to get actually behind the enemy using it but getting to the flank is quite doable.

 

Success at modern day air combat requires good knowledge of the technical aspects of air combat, ie. aircraft and missile (aerodynamics, sensors, control) performance and weaknesses and skill in exploiting their positive and negative characteristics better than the enemy. Typical reason for bad exchange ratio is poor SA.

 

In order to build SA you need data and then some knowledge to interpret the meaning of the data. Gathering data effectively means reducing blind spots to minimum, ie. scan every relevant direction with the radar, especially move the scan volume vertically as it's only 10 degrees high while 120 degrees wide. It takes 4 seconds to scan the entire volume so if there's no new contacts then move the scan volume and wait for 5 seconds and repeat until you find something. You might not want to move it every 5 seconds but maybe every 10 to ease the mental burden except when trying to find a close enemy who is already in firing range.

 

Pay attention to every new contact in RWR and always consider if the new contact is something to be worried about before possibly forgetting about it. There's going to be lot's of beeping (in F-15) as contacts (often friendly) pop in and out of RWR and it's easy to stop paying attention to it constantly because you have also lots of other things to do. That kind of laziness leads to unpleasant surprise of bandit in your six.

 

Technical knowledge is important when trying to make sense of the data you have gathered with various sensors. You need to understand what the sensors tell you and especially what they don't tell you. The most dangerous enemy is the one you don't see or know about so you need to know where the possible enemies are that you can't have knowledge of and then move yourself in a way that helps you clear that space while being in a good position to defend against those enemies. Radar range changes in look-up and look-down situations and also due to target aspect and then there's notching.

 

My advice is quite abstract but I hope it helps you to understand what you need to learn better or know more about. If you are not yet watching acmis of your flights I highly recommend making the extra effort to generate the acmis from replays if you can't get them directly. Acmi is usually the only way to get accurate feedback on how your mental image represented reality and how your decisions worked out.

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such a board statement not sure where the problem is... but i would start with learning the basics 1st. such as weapon systems, flying the aircraft. lots of videos, or teamspeak while flying to help.

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also, don't expect missiles fired at close to maximum range to be successful. some understanding of missile flight dynamics goes a long way - you might want to drag a missile low into thick air to make it bleed energy faster through turns, conversely you may have some range to play with, so making the missile climb to you could be the best way to maintain an altitude advantage over your bandit...

Opinions expressed here are subjective and redundant

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Guys i have been playing online for a while now with the f15 and have tried all sorts of things but my kill to death ratio is terrible. I mean im lucky if i shoot down one enemy to every 25 times i get shot down. Is there a way i can find out where the enemy is with out them knowing i am tracking them? I just seems as though they can sneak up behind me with out me knowing they are there??

Scanning and building a picture is probably your biggest issue, you need to work at a constant pattern of scanning, not flying too direct and building a good picture of your forward hemisphere at the very least over 180 degrees, use your TEWS to assist in this. Also understand where bandits can hide eg. in mountains and mark these off as cautious areas that require careful attention, don't stray too deep into these areas without support from friendlies.

 

If you're flying solo but amongst other friendly fighters try to visualise where your friends are operating and either operate as cover, use them as cover(extend to them) or support them in a wide sweep. Staying offset 5-10nm behind a friendly can yield great results especially if he gets into trouble, you add valuable support for him as well as being able to chat to him if you see incoming, especially if he chases a bandit, he may respond to your chat and that way you're creating SA between each other.

Better still get on TS with others, they are all there with the same thing in mind.

 

Don't chase bandits that are running for too long and especially don't get too focused on one bandit, there is always a bandit sneaking on you.

 

With regards to your radar, regularly select different PRFs to weed out the low beaming bandits trying to notch you, always check scan high and try not to search for bandits in TWS.

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I usually run on the 104th Phoenix server and i am always on TS but thought i would try and learn how to do it myself without bugging people on the server lol. I can land and take off quite well now but now i need to get a grasp on the tactics and how to use the systems to the best of there ability.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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Practice, practice, practice. Watch the TacViews of your MP battles, see what the guys that are killing you are doing that you're not. Reverse engineer your way into stealing their tactics and learning from your mistakes.

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totally agree primal, the moment i went from pushing to the merge, to picking my fights, i started enjoying fighters a whole lot more

 

...always fly 45-60* "also called 3/9 line" off of him

 

i thought the 3/9 line was 90 degrees off your nose, if you picture your jet overlaid on a clock face, the nose pointing to 12 o'clock, the line from 3 to 9 o'clock is the 3/9 line yeah?

...i've been flying about 15 degrees nose-off approach to a contact (if situation permits) to keep the closure rate up which (i think) gives my first shot a little more range (right? not that i fire at max range anyway), would there be any disadvantages to that approach?

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The best thing to do at first would be to avoid mountainous regions. I might suggest sticking off the coast by 5-10nm. While you wont have any ability to duck in cover of terrain it also prevents the enemy from doing the same and forces them to expose them self. and by staying well away from the front lines it lets you slow down on whats going on. It also forces the enemy speed up what they have to do to get through the line and attack you. not to mention you also have the ability to turn and burn into the cover of sams.

 

That depends.

If the enemy can use mountains to his advantage, so can you. Just don't get dragged down there by a bad guy, chasing his tail like a madman, just to loose sight of him and find him seconds later on your 6.

Use the mountains to be aggressive and be prepared to fight WVR. If you have the mountains first, you have the advantage.

Just keep your eyes open and don't use the radar more than you have to.

 

my two cents

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You have three sensors at your disposal:

 

- Radar

- RWR

- Your eyes

 

All three of them must work together. Each has its own unique advantages and drawbacks.

 

Radar has the longest range, but will give away your position and can be jammed. RWR is passive, but cannot tell you range to target, only general direction. Your eyes have the shortest range, but cannot be jammed.

 

You have to study your airplanes strong points and learn to use them in combat. Also, you have to study your adversaries' capabilities and weak points and learn to use this knowledge against them.

 

Being a Fighter pilot is a tough business and not everybody can make it. But if you take your time and study hard, the results would be very rewarding. Trust me :)

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Therefor it's best to be in STT mode when searching for targets.

 

Not Possible as STT is exactly what it states it is 'Single Target Track'

Also STT is not a search mode avail. in DCS

 

@ Bimbac pretty good advise.


Edited by Bolt-1
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I don't think searching in TWS is a bad thing. I tend to alternate between LRS 120 degree, LRS 60 degree, and TWS. Getting specific altitude information in TWS is very helpful, especially when you need to make quick decisions.

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Here is also some good advice. Dont be afraid to take mental notes about what your enemy is doing. turn away and reassess the situation.

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Well EXCUSE ME for jumbling TERMS. RANGE WHILE SEARCH MODE! Maybe you should also tell the captive audiance that the letters R.W.S. DOES NOW show up on the screen!

 

BTW Get off your high horse you knew and just about anyone with some dcsf15 time who read that KNEW what I meant.

 

This is the problem with hard core SIMMERs and thier lack of anything but jack ass comentary. Rather then politely correcting me with the correct term that I Should have used, you decided to prove to the rest of the world that just wants to enjoy them selfs that they wont get much help other then they are wrong you are right and the complimentary BIRD infront of your screen they can't see.

 

Except that it is crucial to use proper terms when discussing anything aircraft related. It's far too easy to mix something up and make mistakes. From where I'm sitting it looks like it was polite and you're coming off as defensive and rude.

 

As for the OP, here's my 2 cents. Don't focus too hard on tactics. Learn how to use the radar and RWR. Don't fly in a straight line towards an enemy, stay at an angle like some others have said. Pulse your radar just long enough to build some situational awareness so that you don't give off your position to your enemy's RWR. Use the mountains to your advantage. They can be great for ambushing an enemy. Just fly and watch others and the rest will come. Don't worry about getting shot down, every does.

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i have a question ---- aside from limited azimuth, is there any DISadvantage to just always staying in TWS?

 

i find the altitude data and velocity vector very helpful

 

and the ability to "soft lock" a target w/o it getting "spiked" on his RWR is very good

 

also, able to lock more than one tgt simultaneously

 

even when i'm using RWS, i drop it down to narrow-scan (60-deg) for faster update rates ---- i use cueing from AWACS to know what direction to direct my radar..

 

if RWS gave greater initial detection range or better low-alt coverage or better tracking a contact manuevering through a notch.. then i would be interested

 

but i simply do not see much advantage at all for using RWS

 

??

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Using the terms correctly is crucial to avoid misunderstandings between the people in the discussion. Given that the guy I'm talking to knows the terms exactly as I or everyone else do I can describe specific situations. Without this you'll end up with the 'uh, do you think what I'm thinking' nonsense.

 

This is essential in learning anything related to air combat, or to be honest anything in general. It's like if you didn't define what addition means in math. Or an equals sign.

 

Start from the absolute basic and work your way up to more and more complex things. Telling newcomers that terminology isn't important is not only incorrect but rude. For someone who's new and does not understand terminology it's close to impossible to progress.

 

Most of the people that are here on the forum asking questions are trying to learn because of curiosity and dedication. Dedication however will have a different meaning to each individual. A guy spending 6 hours a week flying DCS may seem very commited for someone, and seem average for another. It is indeed a game, but some people take more care about their game than others about their real life. We shall give them the opportunity to learn things the proper way. How far would a kid go without learning the basics of math properly? (I see a stupid amount of people failing at university maths because of not having a stable knowledge from their previous studies. It's very sad).

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How ever using terminology by it self is what I'm trying to explain is not the best approach.

 

Sure. What I really meant is that if you do use terminology you should make sure it's defined exactly and correctly. I've seen a lot of threads like this, the first thing that pops up nearly every time is terminology. By using terminology you can define clear situations that are easy understand provided you know what the words mean. Without terminology you'd either have to draw a comic or make a big mess. None of them are a good option.

 

Maybe the forum should have a terminology department, albeit most of the threads would still be posted because nobody ever uses forum search. :D

 

I know you didn't direct it at me, don't worry. I don't understand why people have to attack each other when both are essentially trying to help a third. I do know why though.

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I generally try and leave the terminology out of my explanations hence why I was giving everything in degrees * which well if someone doesn't understand that then I'm done helping them.

 

There's nothing wrong terminology/jargon.

 

I do agree with you that speaking only in terminology is not very helpful to new players, because those new players have no prior knowledge and may not have the means or ability to easily find definitions.

 

However, this is most definitely not an argument against using terminology. Terminology is critically important because it is a convenient means of talking about precisely defined ideas and concepts. If we all understand and agree upon the terminology, we can have a discussion. On the other hand, if we have no terminology, we must continually create and recreate our own personal definitions, and this means we forever run the risk or talking past each other, of not really knowing if we actually understand each other, and of needlessly 'reinventing the wheel' over and over. Now, if some of us don't understand the terminology, it can be explained to them, and it then becomes a very powerful mental shortcut that accelerates learning and information exchange. Terminology exists in every human endeavor for a reason.

 

You said yourself that you try and leave out the terminology, yet not only did you use the terminology "3/9 line" (which has a precise definition), you used the terminology incorrectly (no biggie, we all make mistakes). However, when <Blaze> corrected you, you doubled down and said that "crank is also keeping them on your 3/9line, same thing", which is just wrong. So despite your efforts to simplify and use every day language, you ended up creating more confusion than there would have been if the correct, precisely defined terminology had been used.

 

The solution here is not to abandon terminology, nor is to impugn terminology as some elitist language that acts as a needless barrier to new players. It's true, I concede that some people with a 'clubhouse' mentality may wield terminology as a weapon, but they are not the majority.

 

In my opinion, the solution is is to keep using terminology, but also to remain vigilant in tempering that terminology with newbie-friendly explanations when the context requires it. We sometimes forget to do this, so it is always good to be reminded.

 

In any case, pr1malr8ge, I don't mean to wade into this thread and re-open old wounds, but this does seem to be one of those perennial topics, and it was just a bit much to see someone get the terminology wrong (which, again, we all do sometimes), yet then use that as a jumping off point to argue against terminology.

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