More modern aircraft PLEASE!

[WRAITH]

DCS is the future...............................

 

Really?

 

Aren't you overlooking a number of other products, both in the marketplace, and in the final stages of development?

 

There is one hugely important factor being overlooked with modern aircraft. Availability of data, the secrecy surrounding them, and the manufacturers being precious about licencing products. Do you have any suggestions about how true to life sims can be made without those crucial stumbling blocks being overcome?

 

The facts are that you'll just have to accept that modern air combat is the hardest genre to cover here, and a lot of developers will take the less complexity, less obstacles route, and who can blame them! I am sure you realise that to develop the systems of a computer driven modern fighter will be 100 times more difficult than 1930s, 1940s and 1950s technology.

 

 

See what I mean......... why the rebuttal when so many flight simmers almost want what I have clarified above.

 

Yeah there are a few sims ie. Prepar3D so on..... none really meet what we as customers are wanting its just a mish mash of concepts.

 

Oh boy, I could go on and on and on adding online reviews other links and what not but for those that love what Falcon 4.0 achieved also again much of what FSX has could be incorporated in a Falcon 4.0 type sim concept label it what you like DCS or other I'm not into labels as per se!

 

 

"For example" FSX JSF F-35 A/B/C new modern Gen 5 Air Craft Fully Click-able 6DOF Working Cockpit........... http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r543/picturebucket7/Mixed%20Pics/FSXF-35ABCModels_zps27e9403b.jpg ............. just add a DCS PFM................ http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=122801 :thumbup: Job done!

 

Or you can fly the F-35 in Prepar3D but no Theater of War relative to a mission so on or even in FSX you can fly the F-35A but NO Theaters, campaigns etc..............

 

Video Example- http://youtu.be/G1KMeOpoVNI ......... "See it all can be done to a degree"! NO FBI chasing poor Dino Catteano there I believe!

 

Dont believe the hype - all lies .......... or VRS TACPAC F-18 ..............

........but again no theaters just a mish-mash concept not Air Combat

 

Its just sad really that Air Combat sims are dying.

 

One of my thoughts is that all these developers in various sims should just merge and build a great one.

 

But sure all the legal jargon and management bla bla.

 

But take a look at PS3, XBOX gaming industry and what I tell you now here is just that exactly is what they do one company buying another making millions in profit with new titles wooing the crowds with new GFX engines and A.i improvements.

 

**** But O/T here OP is about DCS modern Air craft and I have wishes and my own vision as I see Air Combat Study sims!

 

Cheers,

 

:beer:

Edited August 30, 2014 by WRAITH

[nap0leonic]

how about modern light attack aircraft like Super Tucano? are those little babies also classified?

 

 

@WRAITH

 

I share your pain, in fact probably many of us do; the unfortunate truth is modern air combat sim -and civilian flight sim to a lesser extent- took a suicide with Falcon 4 and Micropose, because both (and the same case can be argued with PMDG) ultimately made flight sims became isolated in the darkest corner of gaming universe... because such games are ultimately ultra niche and most people just cannot afford to embrace.

 

heck look at star citizen, which transcendent in it's own genre, considerably the closest cousin to modern combat flight sim, still ultimately very far from being hardcore sim and when compared side by side with 16 years old Falcon 4 can somewhat look very very arcadey... and the truth is, any attempt to persuade star citizen to become more like DCS (hardcore sim) is meet with very heavy resistance... can you imagine if chris roberts made strike commander citizen instead of star citizen? for me personally it would have been a much much bigger dream come true, but alas, he himself knew that the potential audience for such a game would have been MUCH MUCH SMALLER, and I have little doubt that such a kickstarter project may ended up receiving only at best 1/5th the fund that star citizen got to this day (50+ millions)... this is just the bitter truth we combat flight sim fans have to swallow.

 

so hardcore modern combat flight sim community is totally alien to the rest of gaming community and so game developers will continue to overlook it.

 

blame micropose and falcon 4 for it; it was their fault :D

Edited August 25, 2014 by nap0leonic

[WRAITH]

how about modern light attack aircraft like Super Tucano? are those little babies also classified?

 

 

@WRAITH

 

blame micropose and falcon 4 for it; it was their fault :D

 

beat it, beat it that darn thing set the benchmark to high ........... http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?53................. LoL

 

 

 

But honestly back on topic really hanging out to see a DCS SU-27 vs DCS F-18E with PFM at A-10C standard a good dogfight match! :thumbup:

 

Cheers,

 

:beer:

Edited August 25, 2014 by WRAITH

[Abburo]

Please please please.... do not compare anything with StarCitizen... is a blasphemy for other parties :)... this is the marketing without substance in its most pure sense.

-

I still believe Eagle Dynamics is on the right track. New and old are coming, maps are coming, new genre like first person, land combat (as an extended simulation) and why not trains might come... the platform (EDGE) will be more permisive for all of that. Also, comparing DCS with past simulations is not necessary relevant. This is a whole new approach due to increased internet speed, a better licensing controls and a quicker updating/patching systems in case of critical failures .

New 3rd party developers had rise. They have already presented their plans, which BTW looks very promising.

-

I am sure those most wanted F18, F15E and Apache will come ... I barely wait for Su-27 for example as I had a passion for russian aircrafts.

[Exorcet]

Whilst everyone has their own points of view (which are all valid), I still agree wholeheartedly with the original post. Whilst I'm a big fan of DCS (owning everything up to the F86 and FW190), I keep asking the question - is anyone actually putting some thought into product development to keep DCS not just alive, but interesting??? Thats the part that fails. Why?

 

- we have modern a/c (FC3, A10C, KA50, Mi

- we have WW2 a/c (P51 and now the FW190)

- we have a Korea era a/c (F86)

- we have a Vietnam era a/c (Huey)

 

Yet we have:

 

- no new maps

- no common playability

- the promise of so much but the long periods between delivery (I understand it takes long to develop).

Normandy map is coming along with a bunch of WWII aircraft and WWII ground units supposedly. You're already getting what you're asking for basically, WWII has been selected as the next time period to flesh out because it's the easiest to do. People are still complaining though because it's not the time period they want. So basically, you'd benefit more from ED not taking a one time period approach anyway.

 

Also, 3rd party devs (VEAO in particular)how now stated interest in developing additional maps. How many would we get if these devs were kept out because they would be forced to work on only a narrow range of aircraft?

 

My point is....why doesn't ED focus their time/effort/resources on ensuring playability?? ie.

Why do you think we're missing that? The current map is useable for 1940-today. Modernish combat is captured well by the existing choice of modules (A-10C, UH-1, Mi-8, Ka-50, FC3, upcoming F/A-18) and units. We also have units dating back to the 60's and 70's, some of which also make reasonable stands ins for 50's units. ED wants to expand the library for all time periods and I think it's a good idea.

 

- modern a/c (FC3, etc)...then MORE modern a/c - F/A18, F16, F15E, etc etc.

- WW2? fine, then focus ONLY on WW2 ie. P51, FW190, A WW2 MAP, WW2 era a/c

- Korean conflict? fine, then MORE Korean conflict a/c - the F86 primarily went up against the Mig 15. Why not develop the Mig 15?

- Vietnam conflict? fine, then MORE Vietnam conflict a/c - Mig 17, F105, etc etc.

All of this has the possible effect of warding off 3rd part devs and greatly reducing DCS content. Going modern in particular carries that risk.

Instead we have 1 or 2 a/c from each period that never really flew/fought against each other. And we're still on the same map.

The map isn't really a problem unless you just want something new. Your notion on aircraft pairings ignore the more modern units that have plenty of complimentary units. The only aircraft that are truly "alone" at the moment are the P-51 and Fw-190. They're also the ones getting their own theater. The F-86 and MiG-15 coexist with units they would have seen later in their life span (C-130, AN-26 (as An-24)

 

I understand these are made by different partners but c'mon.....you jump online onto a 'war' server only to see P51s flying up against A10s against Hueys against Mig 29s. wtf???

Where does this happen? This is not a result of DCS being mutli era. It's a result of mission designer choice. You can just as easily hop online and see F-15's against MiG-29's or none of the former and just F-86's vs MiG-15's.

 

Why doesn't someone at ED go:

 

- okay, cut the crap - we're focusing on modern day a/c. You lot work on a new map (eg. Middle East), you lot work on the F/A 18, and the rest of you on an attack heli eg. AH64 or AH1Z or something.

- or the same for one of the eras above...take your pick. Just please PICK ONE.

They might not be doing it because it could up end worse for everyone, even the people wanting that era.

[Buckeye]

As long as they keep making improvements to the missile modeling, flight models, and radar modeling, I can remain content knowing what great stuff is on the horizon in terms of modern jets currently being developed. Equally as important to me is MP stability, I'd like to see improvements coming down for that too but I have faith 2.0.0 will address this as well.

 

I'm as eager as anyone to see the Hornet released (with a nice wish list for other jets I'd love to see after that), but I understand it takes a lot of time and effort to develop what we are asking for -- fully modeled, highly complex flight and systems jets. It's best to just be patient.

Edited August 25, 2014 by =Buckeye=

[NineLine]

Everyone just needs to have a little more faith... they were pretty deep into the Hornet when it was officially confirmed... just saying.

[HellToupee]

rather see more core features/stability from ED than simply more modules already heaps announced from 3rd party devs.

[SDsc0rch]

Everyone just needs to have a little more faith... they were pretty deep into the Hornet when it was officially confirmed... just saying.

 

what he's saying is.. there are projects in the works that aren't being discussed................

[NoJoe]

rather see more core features/stability from ED than simply more modules already heaps announced from 3rd party devs.

 

New graphics engine certainly is a large step toward that.

[WRAITH]

Air Combat Study Simulators

 

what he's saying is.. there are projects in the works that aren't being discussed................

 

Sadly left to say as I join this chat is ............ I really want to see these projects!

 

Because the more I dig the more I push around in Forums the result / outcome is Air Combats Simulators are dying Game Companies and Developers just dont want to work that hard anymore in general! Its all about XBOX and PS3 now making billions check UBISOFT profit intakes online, wow but geee make ROI on Air combat Sims!

 

Sadly this is where you will find them............ http://www.xtcabandonware.com/ or http://www.myabandonware.com/ :cry_2::cry_2::cry_2::cry_2::cry_2::cry_2:

 

Like a junk yard for Air Combat Sims!

 

A good example...............

 

 

 

In 2009 I thought to myself gee I want to get back into this as my other hobbies being Travel and Motorcycle Clubbing, were just becoming to costly for many to continue in................ only to find these darn Game Companies and Developers in general have buried Air Combat Sims.

 

I even had a vision of building a home made F-18 cockpit as a hobby now I just dont know if its worth me investing $$$$ to a dead end!

 

More info here ............ http://fa18simulator.weebly.com/my-fa-18c-cockpit.html or F-16 ........ www.viperwing.com -

 

Now DCS is the only real contender but still not fulfilling what we all want for many reasons in which I can understand and some not agree with.

 

Now again yes I want more air craft but that does NOT make a Air Combat Sim rather more like a "Collector of Military Air Craft Software" thats putting it straight.

 

Where are the Historical Wars and Campaigns or even Modern warfare campaigns or Theoretical Wars where you have an armada of Air Craft in the air and in the mission employment phase like Vietnam, Korean Wars etc

 

Its just so darn sad, I finally I have a great PC for gaming or sims and there are NO Air Combat Sims in development!

 

Agggghhh whats the point though.

 

We can only hope that DCS after EDGE will meet the mark we are looking for.

 

But again positive / negative situation unclear the dark side is............. :D

 

I just want really in-depth Single-Player and Multi-Player Air Combat Study Sims that embrace all that is Aerial Warfare from a cadet to fully commissioned combat pilot with A.i and user are more involved in tactical-strategic approach to air combat with thick manuals everything you can imagine with the new hardware and software tech now days! :smartass::book: :thumbup: It would be awesome with new tech!

 

Heck stick some commercial aviation in various categories as well keeping the place busy..............but we wait...........

 

PLEASE! :dunno:

Edited August 26, 2014 by WRAITH

[Abburo]

Just to quote some of your previous comments, DCS is a digital combat simulator not an Historical Combat Simulator... of course this is just to underline people way of thinking, changing their minds and feeling never succesfull. As far as I am concern I am not looking for historical battle restorations, this is a job for History Channel or Viasat History.

 

We are helping nobody with these statements, nor us, neither ED.

I am happy for any new content that will come at DCS standards, even they are civil, WW2 or X-Wing. Be sure each have their own public targets. Why should be some modern jockeys privilleged while some old veterans are ommited, or future kids never be taken in consideration? Not fair... I would dare to say.

 

EDGE will open for sure some new opportunities, current engine is too old to properly accomodate new techonogies. Just wait some more time. Meanwhile, mission editor is our friend!

[WRAITH]

DCS an Air Combat Sim

 

Just to quote some of your previous comments, DCS is a digital combat simulator not an Historical Combat Simulator.!

 

Hi just to chat with you ...... Are you sure you are clear on what is a "Air Combat Sim", especially a "Study Sim" in general terms of use.

 

To point out what are "Historical Wars and Campaigns as well as Theoretical Wars and Campaigns" take a read through these links.............

 

http://tactical.nekromantix.com/f4/theaters.php

 

Also..............

 

 

 

CLARIFICATION OF TERMS USED IN AIR COMBAT SIMULATORS

 

Now terms like “Theaters, Campaigns, Missions, Battlefield, Artificial Intelligence, (A.i), Warfare”

 

.....… etc are not owned by any game title including Micrprose/Atari falcon 4.0 but the very essence of anything relating to military defense and strategy games.

Some links to read:-

Military (Theaters )Warfare:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_theater

 

 

Military Wars:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War

 

Military (Campaign) Warfare:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_campaign

 

Artificial intelligence (video games):- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artific...video_games%29

 

"No Game Title” or “EULA” owns those terms legally!

 

They are concepts or descriptions and they are found in every video game that’s based around WAR as per say.

 

i.e.

 

* Call of Duty

* Battlefied4

* HAWX2

* FSX

* ED-DCS A10-C ............... Even your own Campaign Mission Editor - Georgian Theater of War

 

 

…………………… for example and many more games use those terms.

 

Now going back to my discussion its more of a “Please” will DCS develop more “Theaters of WAR with Military Campaigns" that have been fought “Historically or Theoretical" scenarios in Modern WAR Theaters. This is what makes a combat sim and I prefer Single Player with Multi Player capable.

 

The discussion is evolving from an undefined “GFX Engine” to a defined “GFX Engine” that DCS is moving with, and these are questions yet to be answered as many here or customers of your product would love to know about. That is the intents and purposes of the “EDGE GFX Engine” and how that will develop with DCS.

 

Military Historical and Theoretical Wars:-

 

* Vietnam

* Taiwan

* Balkans

* Korean

* Afanganistan

* Israeli - Yom Kipor

* Iraq – Operation Desert Storm

* Europes Fall

* Libyan Crisis

 

……………… just to name a few, with so many possibilities, the creativity here is as far as the imagination of developers!

 

Thats why many others as myself use this link as an example to illustrate what can be done in a DCS Series ( DSC Theaters with Dynamic or Advanced A.i Campaign) ......... http://www.lead-pursuit.com/download...e_campaign.pdf

 

Also this is a kool read ............... http://www.stanford.edu/dept/HPS/TimLenoir/Publications/Lenoir-Lowood_TheatersOfWar.pdf

 

So I hope I have raised a better argument for discussion for DCS Theaters of WAR with Dynamic Campaigns say 3 per Theater. Also suitable GFX Engines and direction, its really a critical part to Air Combat that has been missing for a long time now.

 

You got to expect from people either buying this product or using it to ask probing questions about development plans with thoughts and expressions and referencing other products to some respectable sense. Its only natural that people are curious and desire more from this product.

 

The point is about developing more "DCS Theaters of WAR" with at least three A.i Dynamic Campaigns, that's what people enjoy in Combat Simulators!

 

I hope that reads better and discussion taken for what it is in this Thread!

 

Maybe this development section creating Theaters for DCS could be allowed as open source or some sort of Community Project arrangement using a plug-in and modeling tools and submit that to DCS Developers, whilst the DCS Source code still remains guarded and private.................. just some kind of open door to develop further what the DCS community would like.

 

Well just sharing out lowed, no harm in that I guess!

 

 

 

*** Also read this thread carefully as well................. http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2154961&postcount=17

 

Just having a whole bunch of Air Craft from every era doing what nothing does not make a Air Combat Sim................ so we can only hope that after EDGE DCS will improve on this!

 

Cheers,

 

Edited August 26, 2014 by WRAITH

[Abburo]

I just saw some MP discussions in this forum where some guys are trying to reopen some '80s combat where Mig21 can meet F15... This looks for me that somebody trying to do something to fulfill their needs...

 

Adaptation is also part of our existence, as well as reading carefully thousands pages of documentations.

[WRAITH]

I just saw some MP discussions in this forum where some guys are trying to reopen some '80s combat where Mig21 can meet F15... This looks for me that somebody trying to do something to fulfill their needs...

 

Adaptation is also part of our existence, as well as reading carefully thousands pages of documentations.

 

 

:doh: LoL, I give up you all win pffft whatever tickles your fancy!

 

My adaption, I guess as option I can still run Janes USAF, Allied Force Falcon 4.0 and FreeFalcon in Dual Boot Windows XP Mode! :smilewink: :thumbup:

 

Currently installed under Windows 7 working fine!

 

Truth be said though at the moment DCS sim is just an "Air Craft Collectors Survey Sim"............... certainly not a "Study Air Combat Sim" in the very essence!

 

Thats whats left from the decaying flight sims around, just "Multi-Player Junkie Sims", it gets boring after awhile.

 

I want more Advanced A.i Tactical Air Combat Single-Player Functionality where I can use the sim for training purposes, developing concepts, mastering techniques etc with the option to go Multi-Player.

 

I mean again I reinforce the importance Theaters of War in campaigns or joint NATO operations anything that simulate real Air Battlefield Mission and objectives

 

But A.i Single Player functionality has been neglected and Air Combat Sim developers dont see the importance, especially for future development and growth.

 

Consider these concepts and ideas as a "Study Sim" in Single -Player:-

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=129053

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128532

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2154802&postcount=6

 

http://freefalcon.org/topic/8439675/1/

 

 

But people want more and more Air Craft (So do I dont get me wrong) but doing what exactly there is no Theater - WAR - Campaign - Mission - Operations in Development its just people flying various Air Craft a mish-mash with no concept behind it, its kinda mindless Multi-player activity with no real sense of what Air Defense Forces actually do in modern air combat.

 

Please dont get me wrong I do Like the quality of DCS Air Craft Modules but it is missing the mark greatly in the concept of a Single Player Study Sim!

 

But posts are just buried as soon as you post them and development is not what sims use to be, very sad.

 

When it could be heaps of fun for all types of users, not just a Multi-Player Junkies sim whereby many dont even know what a Tactical CAS Sortie Mission is or how to fly ILS or even understand what a VSI Instrument is and how to use it.

 

But, yeah posting to deaf ears here! Pffftt!

 

I do hope it changes though!

 

 

FORUM QUOTE-

 

 

Quote:

We're re-creating the style and excitment of the great sims made in the 90s made popular by Origin and Microprose.

I love sims that tell a story, like Wings of Glory and Strike Commander, where a world exists beyond the confines of the cockpit. Missions need more context and purpose than a wall of text presented just before the mission starts. They need a home base that oozes atmosphere, filled with characters and stories that immerse you in the world. You should personally know your wingmen and feel bad when they die. Modern sims lack the human touch, they are all avionics, physics, faceless AI and robotic missions with no heart.

 

Well take care enjoy what tickles your fancy I guess!

 

Cheers,

 

:beer:

Edited August 28, 2014 by WRAITH

[Friedric]

wat is PFM/ASM and SGM/SSM and AFM+/SSM

[Revan]

Personally, I do not care what aircraft come out first, just so long as, eventually, we will get a decent amount of aircraft from all eras(F-15E, F-4E, B-17, P-40, MiG-15 F-105, IL-2, etc.) and a decent selection of maps (Vietnam, Korea, modern Europe, the Middle East, West/East United States, WWII Pacific theater, etc.)

 

*Edit: Actually, if anyone ever decides to make it I would love an F-4E next.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Revan

[BadK]

Hello,

 

I understand that DCS is trying to diversify their offerings, but there has been a large request for more modern weapons platforms, mainly the AH-64D Apache Longbow and the F/A-18E Super Hornet. For reference, see your own forums:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=51462

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=89004

 

PLEASE get out of this current rut of WW II and Korea and PLEASE add these 2 aircraft. I know several pilots who would love to fly off of a U.S. carrier and use something besides the KA-50 as a tank busting helicopter and if I know several, think of how many are out there worldwide. This is a segment of the aviation community that has been ignored since Flaming Cliffs 3 (pulling 3 aircraft out to sell singularly doesn't really count as new aircraft)

 

Please consider the other perspective as well, namely any of the recently released aircraft (not the single aircraft taken out of the Flaming Cliffs module) but the MI-8, the P-51, the UH-1, The FW-190, and the F-86 against the modern ground units. the SAM threats alone will chew them up and the T-72 series of tank on up as well as the BMP line will have a field day with their ATGMs. Also, I don't believe that the Vietnam War and earlier series of aircraft are even able to take out a T-72 with it's primary weapons.

 

The vintage aircraft crowd has been favored for quite awhile. Please give us modern pilots new modern aircraft, preferably the F/A-18E and the AH-64D as flyable aircraft.

 

Thank you.

 

"More modern aircraft PLEASE!"

 

Quit your bitching, good things take time. Let them start simple and build on complexity.

Edited August 29, 2014 by BadK
I'm drinking....ziiiiiiiiiiiing!

[Vedexent]

wat is PFM/ASM and SGM/SSM and AFM+/SSM

 

 

• SFM - Simple flight model (?)
  
• AFM - Advanced Flight Model (Su-27)
  
• AFM+ - Enhanced Advanced Flight Model (Su-25)
  
• PFM - Professional Flight Model (F-15, Ka-50, A-10C)
  

There's also an External Flight model for third party developers (which is kinda/sorta PFM, depending on how the developer models the "internal" part to go with that external part).

 

As you go down the list, the level of sophistication in the modelling, and therefor the realism, goes up.

 

The other pairing is Systems Modelling

 

• SSM - Simple systems modelling (not-clickable cockpit)
  
• ASM - Advanced Systems Modelling (clickable cockpits - roughly)
  

So, Su-25 is SSM/AFM+, F-15 is SSM/PFM, Ka-50 is ASM/PFM, A-10C is ASM/PFM, etc.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Vedexent

[Friedric]

thx

[Random]

These threads are always a fun read!

 

Though personally I'm excited by everything announced for DCS. Just a little sad nobody seems to be doing any early air warfare modules. DCS Fokker Eindecker anyone?

[Sceptre]

These threads are always a fun read!

 

Though personally I'm excited by everything announced for DCS. Just a little sad nobody seems to be doing any early air warfare modules. DCS Fokker Eindecker anyone?

 

You would like Rise of Flight if you want WW1 planes, I'm not sure that DCS would make one, but I have no idea :)

[Soulres]

Not really, MI8 and Mig21 are still used today by alot of countries. If they make easy money by doing these WW2 Moduals that are no where near as complicated as a A10c(which is what you want) we wouldnt see ED for 2 years, Once the Iconic Warbirds WW2-Korea are out of the way (for the most part they are) DCS:WW2 is being done seprately. (best to get the ED models out before thats finished) With ED you just have to sit and wait. its not a matter of IF with ED. it is just a matter of WHEN.

[Random]

I've got Rise of Flight

 

Don't really play it any more though.

[Weltensegler]

On one hand I agree. Since the F18C was announced (well officially announced as next popular modern US fix wing...) several modules have come out and I admit I always sigh and think:

"another one nobody asked for? where is the F18 I considered into my cockpit build years ago?"

But then I remind myself that besides the fact that the F18 comes with a lot unpredictable challenges that DCS hasn't seen yet like unscripted carrier landings, ground radar etc., most modules that have been released since then are either third party modules or done by a separate team.

Also not to forget the switch to EDGE which kinda puts even "finished" products like Nevada on the bench for now.

 

So lets just wait a bit longer and see what happens after EDGE and Nevada arrive. I'm sure by then and probably 5 more WWII planes later we will get some news about the holy F18 and other wished for modules.

 

I mean we already have two F18 versions in work...the first released will be the hero for some and the methadone for the ones that wait for the other version.

 

regards,

 

WELD