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The Mig21 cockpit looks too "dirty"


stray cat

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I think the Mig21 interior cockpit looks a bit too "used". Especially the dirt in the lower area of cockpit and the wear on the exposed metal left and right of the pilot and the paper age.

The textures look absoutely convincing so the quality of the model and texture is great, I just think it should look a bit less used. For example I noticed there is a considerable differenence in wear level between the KA50 cockpit (made by ED?) and the cockpits made by BELSIMTEK. FOr example, their stuff has minimal wear, which shows the aircraft is not just off the assembly line instead only has a minimal amount of wear.

 

The Mig21 cockpit however looks like it was towed off a scrapyard.

Again, not critizizing the quality of the developer work, I just would have a preferred a less used, more "minimal wear look" like on the BELSIMTEK modules.

 

I feel this contrast every time after flying the f86 or Mi-8 when I take the KA50, feels like climbing into a dirty trashcan. With the pedals looking like they were pulled out of the tchernobyl reactor ruins and sold for profit for its magical properties.

 

Suggestions: Is it possible to offer 2 texture settings? One in the current worn state and one in a more pristine condition? I know modders will probably offer that, but I vaguely assume reducing the wear on the existing textures done by the actual texture artist would be of higher quality.

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I think the Mig21 interior cockpit looks a bit too "used". Especially the dirt in the lower area of cockpit and the wear on the exposed metal left and right of the pilot and the paper age.

The textures look absoutely convincing so the quality of the model and texture is great, I just think it should look a bit less used. For example I noticed there is a considerable differenence in wear level between the KA50 cockpit (made by ED?) and the cockpits made by BELSIMTEK. FOr example, their stuff has minimal wear, which shows the aircraft is not just off the assembly line instead only has a minimal amount of wear.

 

The Mig21 cockpit however looks like it was towed off a scrapyard.

Again, not critizizing the quality of the developer work, I just would have a preferred a less used, more "minimal wear look" like on the BELSIMTEK modules.

 

I feel this contrast every time after flying the f86 or Mi-8 when I take the KA50, feels like climbing into a dirty trashcan. With the pedals looking like they were pulled out of the tchernobyl reactor ruins and sold for profit for its magical properties.

 

Suggestions: Is it possible to offer 2 texture settings? One in the current worn state and one in a more pristine condition? I know modders will probably offer that, but I vaguely assume reducing the wear on the existing textures done by the actual texture artist would be of higher quality.

Have you seen pictures of the real Ka-50? :o)

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You both are not making much sense. The F-86 looks clean, and the last of these was probably produced 50+ years ago, yet we get a clean looking plane which is great. I dont want every soviet made aircraft to look like it came from a scrapyard just because most of the planes currently in DCS are from days long gone. The wear level of a plane or helicopter should represent the timeframe is was used and the wear should be minimal because I am sure soviet or states using soviet hardware had the technology to keep aircraft clean.

 

It is a good thing that BELSIMTEK does not enforce the cliche of every russian piece of hardware having to look like a 500 year old warhorse that was used in the siege of constaninople.

 

Funny how no one objects the A10C or or any western aircraft in DCS looking pristinely ultra clean while all russian things look like scrap metal (except for BELSIMTEKS, Mi-8) and that is because the company is from belarus (?) and they know that not everything east of the berlin wall is covered in a thick layer of rust and decay.

 

If all modules would realistically represent a currently existing aircraft that is fully operational in 2014 it would not be realistic. Because I am sure it would be hard to find an F-86 today where all spare parts are readily available. The DORA would probably not have any ammo, some of the F-86 ordnance was probably not produced for decades etc.

 

So about the Mig21 for example, if the model respresented would be from 1970, it should look like a plane that was used in 1970 with a few weeks of use, and not like a thing grabbed from a museum in 2014


Edited by stray cat
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Usually in matters of preference (such as this) we'd try and provide options for an alternative; but unfortunately creating a "cleaner" set of cockpit textures is something we don't have the resources to do. Perhaps some modder will undertake the challenge. :)

 

As for the authenticity of the cockpit itself: note that I do use a lot of photos snapped by our MiG-21 lead developer in conjunction with handpainting in order to achieve the current look. Having seen so many years of service life; they do look fairly worn down. However: even quite fresh military aircraft tend to have significant weathering in the cockpit, and the MiG-21 was frequently touched up by technicians inside the cockpit as well.

 

As for your assertion on western aircraft: I do believe Ricardo's horse of war mod is fairly popular around here, and accurately represents the look of active A-10 aircraft.

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Funny how no one objects the A10C or or any western aircraft in DCS looking pristinely ultra clean while all russian things look like scrap metal (except for BELSIMTEKS, Mi-8) and that is because the company is from belarus (?) and they know that not everything east of the berlin wall is covered in a thick layer of rust and decay.

 

How many of us do think are flying ED's original cockpit? Probably far less than are flying the Horse of War mod (weathered cockpit).

 

As for the rest of that 'sentence', where do you think ED is located? Pensacola, FL? :doh:

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You both are not making much sense. The F-86 looks clean, and the last of these was probably produced 50+ years ago, yet we get a clean looking plane which is great. I dont want every soviet made aircraft to look like it came from a scrapyard just because most of the planes currently in DCS are from days long gone. The wear level of a plane or helicopter should represent the timeframe is was used and the wear should be minimal because I am sure soviet or states using soviet hardware had the technology to keep aircraft clean.

 

It is a good thing that BELSIMTEK does not enforce the cliche of every russian piece of hardware having to look like a 500 year old warhorse that was used in the siege of constaninople.

 

Funny how no one objects the A10C or or any western aircraft in DCS looking pristinely ultra clean while all russian things look like scrap metal (except for BELSIMTEKS, Mi-8) and that is because the company is from belarus (?) and they know that not everything east of the berlin wall is covered in a thick layer of rust and decay.

 

If all modules would realistically represent a currently existing aircraft that is fully operational in 2014 it would not be realistic. Because I am sure it would be hard to find an F-86 today where all spare parts are readily available. The DORA would probably not have any ammo, some of the F-86 ordnance was probably not produced for decades etc.

 

So about the Mig21 for example, if the model respresented would be from 1970, it should look like a plane that was used in 1970 with a few weeks of use, and not like a thing grabbed from a museum in 2014

Have you seen pictures of real A-10Cs?

 

And btw, nobody complains about the original look because there is RICCARDOs Cockpit mod ...

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I just think it is a bit too cliche to have too much wear because people associate mig21 > soviet > rundown.

It would be a similar problem to remove 60% saturation out of a mission flying the P-51 because saving private ryan taught us that the world had no color before the 1940s.

 

But as cobra said, its preference, the quality of the textures is great. I just noticed I find myself avoiding flying the Ka50 because its that depressing dirty box.

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Well...I fly all modules with original cockpits and to by honest, I don´t give a fu**, if there are scratches and dirt or not. Oh they made it look more used....cool....oh and here they made it like fresh new....cool. Let´s imagine all that work behind this module, sleepless nights and stressful deadlines, tons of bugs to solve, textures to make, materials to study..........and when it´s finally finished, someone creates this non-sense thread about cockpit being too dirty. :-D That´s what I call a major suckage.

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I just noticed I find myself avoiding flying the Ka50 because its that depressing dirty box.

 

Are you serious?

 

:lol:

 

I've seen all kinds of stuff over the years...

 

"I don't fly Russian aircraft."

 

"I don't fly helicopters."

 

"I don't fly pre-70s aircraft".

 

But "I don't fly stuff with scratched cockpits" certainly takes the cake.

 

:thumbup:

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Are you serious?

 

:lol:

 

I've seen all kinds of stuff over the years...

 

"I don't fly Russian aircraft."

 

"I don't fly helicopters."

 

"I don't fly pre-70s aircraft".

 

But "I don't fly stuff with scratched cockpits" certainly takes the cake.

 

:thumbup:

 

:-D

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To be fair, some people like their cockpits fresh and clean yeah. Personally I like the weathered look, especially in a vintage fighter. I think it is a bit too much to ask the devs to make a "clean" cockpit at this point in time. Still, try to show some tolerance to other peoples opinions and preferences, your own opinion isn't LAW.

 

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To be fair, some people like their cockpits fresh and clean yeah. Personally I like the weathered look, especially in a vintage fighter. I think it is a bit too much to ask the devs to make a "clean" cockpit at this point in time. Still, try to show some tolerance to other peoples opinions and preferences, your own opinion isn't LAW.

 

Are you referring to me or badger?

I based my suggestion for a clean cockpit option on the following:

 

1. It would be possible to add an option in the menu (under special) for the MIG21 to switch to a different cockpit texture set.

 

2. It would be possible for the texture artist to simply reduce the wear of some texture areas assuming his textures are a gigantic PSD file with many layers, so I think it should be easy to do. But then I am not a professional texture artist so I am assuming stuff out of the blue.

 

 

The reason I got to this opinion is that I noticed how calm and peaceful the F-86 felt, and I identified because it was the calm and relaxing colors and the mimimal wear in it. it just so comfortable being in that cockpit. After that in the same game I hop into the KA50 and it was like climbing into a trashcan from hell. The tragedy here is that all DCS modules are so convincing in model and textures that if it is representing a dirty uncomfortable place, you atually dont want be in it.

The texture on the Mig21 is so convincing I went "this place is a dump" because it so accurately conveys the look of an aged aircraft.

The F-86 and all BELSIMTEK products are on the same level of quality in texture I think and that is why I would have liked a clean MIG21 like BST does it.

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I think it is a bit too much to ask the devs to make a "clean" cockpit at this point in time. Still, try to show some tolerance to other peoples opinions and preferences, your own opinion isn't LAW.

 

Are you referring to me or badger?

 

I don't think he's referring to you Cat. It looks like he doesn't agree with you but suggests that others should respect your opinion.

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Are you referring to me or badger?

I based my suggestion for a clean cockpit option on the following:

 

1. It would be possible to add an option in the menu (under special) for the MIG21 to switch to a different cockpit texture set.

 

2. It would be possible for the texture artist to simply reduce the wear of some texture areas assuming his textures are a gigantic PSD file with many layers, so I think it should be easy to do. But then I am not a professional texture artist so I am assuming stuff out of the blue.

 

As the developer posted earlier in this thread, it is not an easy undertaking and not something they can focus their resources on. You are assuming inaccurate things again, much like you did earlier in the thread when you said everyone liked the Warthog pit because it was clean....when in reality, Ricardo's Horse of War mod to give it a beat up appearance is probably the most popular mod in DCS.

 

Fact of the matter is the Mig-21 is an old plane. Having it look old and worn is realistic. If you or someone else want to create clean cockpit textures, as the dev stated earlier in the thread, you will be free to do so.

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Having spent countless hours to date with my head in the cockpit I can state with certainty that it's not that bad as what you see in the vids etc etc. Youtube always does a stirling job of pulling whatever quality it is through their a$$es and depositing a HD sticker on the vid as it comes out the other side, irrespective of end-product.

 

The english cockpit lettering is crystal clear, as are the dials and the like. What is worn is the paintwork and such but even then, it's done so well as to look aged and used, but not excessively so. It tends to lean towards the new side of worn and not at all beaten up. Granted, if you want factory-fresh you are not going to get it but then again, my personal preference says that crystal-clean would not 'fit' well with the Mig.

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To the original OP, I don't particularly like a worn out look for a cokpit either, but the sad fact is that many of these planes are 50 years old or more... Do a google search on pretty much any military plane and you will see that they are in various forms of wretched...

 

You may prefer a "cleaner" cockpit, but saying it is inaccurate is well...

Inaccurate..

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But, surely these planes go through overhaul (if you want to keep them in a flyable condition) during which the cockpit could also get repainted..

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As stated, google cockpits and look for yourself.. Whatever the reason, whatever maintenance is done or not done, there are TONS of planes out there that look like they went thru the apocalypse... Pretty much ANY state of wear is possible so no matter what is provided by the DEVS someone will be unhappy. (They simply made the cockpit according to the pics they had at the time..)

 

And please remember that one of the guys on the team is a REAL LIFE Mig-21 pilot so if this was unrealistic I am certain he would have done something about it..

 

Something else is the fact that there are MANY different military establishments all around the world using the Mig-21 and many of them have very poor funding and or training and can barely afford the plane itself let alone costly refits... I can guarantee you that if the plane is functional and funding is poor, the very LAST thing they will do is anyhting regarding aesthetics..


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I don't think he's referring to you Cat. It looks like he doesn't agree with you but suggests that others should respect your opinion.

 

That's exactly what I meant. thank you very much.:)

 

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I think the Mig21 interior cockpit looks a bit too "used".

 

Cant agree, now is perfect. I was in many "russians" cocpit like MiG-21, MiG-23, Su-22. This one looks like the real and I like it a lot :].

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