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Russian equipment was too old, while USA equipment was Modern 1995+


JOKERACTS

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certain stuff was too old for the Russian equipment,

the Su-27, Su-33 was very old with classic avionics,

 

the R-27 missiles, R-27R, R-27T, R-27ER, R27ET,

there were several other type: R-27P, R-27EP, R-27EA, R27EM , those was missing?

I tried the FC2 mission, I found the Su-33 equipped with R-27EM missile,

FC3 mission editor do not have it?

 

while the USA equipped with AIM-120C-7? a very high end modern missile!

ranged of 120-150? KM, Active radar seeker, ECM homing, ....

 

that simulator need more hard work to balance,

 

if EF-2000 or F/A-18E was out, at least Su-27SM2 should be out as well?

and the upgraded Su-33 that can load with R-77, Kh-31A Krypton or Kh-41 Moskit anti-ship missile?

 

the Mig-31 should be able to load with remove-able fuel tanks, upgraded version can load with R-77, R-73 even some air to ground missile.

before the EF-2000 or F/A-18E out, the other F/A-18C, F-16A, F-16C, Mirage 2000, F-117?, F-5E, AV-8B should be out first for flyable with 6dof cockpit!?

 

those F/A-18C, F-16A, F-16C, F-5E, AV-8B, F-117? suggest to be release in a package as the FC3 packed with various planes, that make it highly valuable!

 

Mirage 2000, Tornado IDS, Tornado GR4, Tornado ADV, suggest to be release in a package as the FC3 packed as well with various planes, that make it highly valuable!

 

the F-14A was lack of 3D detail, and the F-14D not in the simulator?

the Mig-25 also lack of 3D detail, and various other planes.

 

I Checked the Dangerous Water naval simulator in youtube, it featured P-3C and SH-60B!

Mi-24V, Ka-27?, Mi-28?, Ka-52, Ah-64A, Ah-64D to make flyable?


Edited by JOKERACTS
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You can achieve balance in more ways that just making each plane equal. The Russians have some solid advantages like R-73, HMS, datalink (though it needs some tweaking), IRST.

 

I believe the AMRAAM in sim is the C-5 or something, though you can easily restrict F-15's to AIM-7M's which are clearly inferior to the R-27ER in terms of range and speed. There's your balance. Also keep in mind that the MiG-29 has active missiles. If you're a Flanker pilot, pair up with them and work together. Use your better radar to provide them with SA and let them take over when things get to close for SARH missiles (although you can carry ET's for this situation).

 

The 3D models are a totally different topic, but ED is upgrading them every so often. I think the Su-24 is getting a new model soon. The MiG-29 is getting one in the future too.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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What most bothers me is completely neglected mig-29. 6dof cockpit, 3d model, AFM, maybe something else... These things that thou listed there are various raesons.

“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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Personally, I am more a fan of Russian aircraft myself, though this doesn't necessarily mean that I believe them to be superior combat platforms.

 

Would I like to see more modern and full DCS level Russian aircraft. Day 1 buys, it would be the modern aircrafts that would excite me most, but that is not very likely.

 

There are not a whole load of unclassified and reliable information on those aircraft to make it possible.

 

Also for R-27EA and EM, I believe that there isn't enough evidence around to show that they are in active service and I believe that was the cited reason of their removal.

 

I think highest AMRAAM variant in game is C-5 but not sure, though, as with all A-A missiles in sim currently AIM-120 isn't all that huge of a trouble. A-A missile guidance in DCS is a WIP and currently all missiles including AIM-120 are not too difficult to evade, especially if you know that you have been launched on.

 

There are more pressing things to fix than 3D eye candy levels of F-14 and MiG-25, an example would be missiles mentioned above.

 

While I don't fly too often on servers, in my experience and opinion, Su-27 is currently able to put up a fight against F-15 quite fine, even if F-15 has overall advantage in BVR, it is not too dominating.

 

I myself would love to see most, actually all of the aircraft you mention as flyable as well but, developing even FC3 level modules are not like growing flowers or preparing a supper kind of easy-peasy quick business. And to be honest, I don't believe there is too large an interest on more FC3 level content for DCS in community. I myself am not sure about that either, while I appreciate relative ease of development to quickly provide more options, and more accesibility for not too hardcore simmers, I can't help but think even current FC3 aircraft feels slightly out of place in a hardcore flight sim, and can't see myself spending a lot of money on a future FC3 level offering. I mean, it is fine for Su-25 and to a degree Su-25T, perhaps even A-10A if we push it. Since they don't have too complex systems anyway. Both flavors of Su-25 is actually one of my favorites in DCS to fly. But 4th gen fighters with that simple avionics and in case of MiG-29 (and until it's update gets finished Su-27) flight model feels out of place in an environment where other pilots are memorizing / thinking about the way systems work in their aircraft and use multitudes of switches / mfd pages to get their stuff going. While Su-27 is one of the aircraft I love most since my highschool kid years, it just feels unexciting to dogfight in it's current FC3 flight model, which makes it way too easy.

 

MiG-29 on the other hand, has it worse currently. R-77 is almost useless, since 1.2.6 on whenever we had air to air with some friends, we have found that even R-27ET is more reliable than R-77. And when it comes to flight model, MiG-29 can turn very tight but loses energy so horribly quick and refuses to accelerate so bad, it was a masochistic kind of fun to try to dogfight in it :P. Add on top of all that it's rather horrible radar, MiG has almost no chance in a BVR engagement and doesn't fare too much better in a WVR dogfight against either Su-27 or F-15.

 

Oh, also, since you have mentioned Mirage 2000C and Tornado GR4, I would like to add that they already are being worked on by 3rd party developers Razbam and VEAO respectively, and as fully featured DCS level modules. Not to be releases too soon may be, but I'm sure it'll worth the wait. As for the F-14, I believe there is a group working on a in-between DCS and FC level module of F-14D.

 

Having said all these, I just have suddenly realised that I wouldn't object to a FC3 level F-5E though :music_whistling: it is pretty and agile, not overly complex so a FC3 incarnation can be passable until a DCS one is developed, and would be a damn good rival for MiG-21Bis which I am waiting for, and is soon to be released :music_whistling: did I just contradict myself :lol:

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certain stuff was too old for the Russian equipment,

the Su-27, Su-33 was very old with classic avionics,

 

Those are the aircraft still in use.

 

the R-27 missiles, R-27R, R-27T, R-27ER, R27ET,

there were several other type: R-27P, R-27EP, R-27EA, R27EM , those was missing?

 

They don't exist in RL inventory, so they don't exist in game.

 

while the USA equipped with AIM-120C-7? a very high end modern missile!

ranged of 120-150? KM, Active radar seeker, ECM homing, ....

C-5 and it's pretty poor compared to the real thing. :)

 

that simulator need more hard work to balance,
No. Balance is not the goal.

 

if EF-2000 or F/A-18E was out, at least Su-27SM2 should be out as well?

and the upgraded Su-33 that can load with R-77, Kh-31A Krypton or Kh-41 Moskit anti-ship missile?

No. No such Su-33 upgrade exists in the real world, only on wikipedia. Su-27Smx only available in small numbers, and there are no data to model it.

 

I Checked the Dangerous Water naval simulator in youtube, it featured P-3C and SH-60B!

Mi-24V, Ka-27?, Mi-28?, Ka-52, Ah-64A, Ah-64D to make flyable?

It isn't easy to make a new flyable aircraft.
Edited by GGTharos

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I just realized the Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov was just fully operational in 1995, Su-33 in 1995-1998.

 

the USA 's AIM-120 missiles first use in 1992, the B version delivered in 1994, C version in 1996. the C-7 version start development at 1998, then it should be 2000s weapon.

 

I still remember the last version before the current update, the DCS World encyclopaedia said the AIM-120C was C-7 model, after the recent DCS World update, I noticed the encyclopaedia change the AIM-120C-7 to AIM-120C.

 

I also noticed the Wikipedia.org article about AIM-120, the AIM-120C-7 suddenly changed to AIM-120C-5, the specification of C-7 was covered.

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i'm not so concerned with "balance" as i am with modeling the real world

 

realism first - balance/gameplay/uninformed-wishful-thinking a very distant last

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  • ED Team
What most bothers me is completely neglected mig-29. 6dof cockpit, 3d model, AFM, maybe something else... These things that thou listed there are various raesons.

 

There were a number of FC3 planes, one of them was going to be last to be upgraded, hardly means it was neglected, and to say completely neglected is unfair as you have no idea what ED is doing behind closed doors.

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To the op. The f15 does not have any of the new avionics suites installed and is lacking Data link compared to the ru birds. So in that regards the RU is superior in regards to Situational awareness especially when there is an awacs in the air. The RU birds also have the EOS with connection to the Helmet mounted display another high advantage allowing the RU birds to run completely passive[silent].

 

Complaining that the F15 has the ability to fire the aim120b/c and the RU still has anolog gauges instead of full efis displays is a bit lame in my opinion especily that the ru birds have a MFD showing routes and datalink when the f15 does not.

 

Ohh and BTW the aim120b/c in game couldn't hit an antov 225 flying straight and level 150km away let alone a nimble fighter at medium firing range.

 

just me .002

 

And to top the balance, the F-15 is smoking like a oilburner, to let the poor russians with datalink to pinpoint the location even more easy.:music_whistling:

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There were a number of FC3 planes, one of them was going to be last to be upgraded, hardly means it was neglected, and to say completely neglected is unfair as you have no idea what ED is doing behind closed doors.

Whatever you do behind closed doors, we are not pleased with the progress MiG-29, for now. We do not need excuses and explanations, already only the finished results.

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“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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Whatever you do behind closed doors, we are not pleased with the progress MiG-29, for now. We do not need excuses and explanations, already only the finished results.

 

Then if facts are not interesting to you then please by all means go play one of the other excellent options that are out there...

 

Err.. Oh yeah that's right .. there aren't any... Guess you will just have to wait for real people to do the real work involved... Sorry no magic wands here buddy..

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  • ED Team
Whatever you do behind closed doors, we are not pleased with the progress MiG-29, for now. We do not need excuses and explanations, already only the finished results.

 

Yes, and if they would have started with the MiG-29 and left the F-15 to last, it would have been a different group of grumpy people.... no matter what ED does, someone is gonna be grumpy... welcome to the Flight Sim community...

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Whatever you do behind closed doors, we are not pleased with the progress MiG-29, for now. We do not need excuses and explanations, already only the finished results.

 

Who is 'we'?

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When people say things like "balance" or "overpowered" in a simulator, it doesn't really make sense, as planes in real life are designed to be overpowered!

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Whatever you do behind closed doors, we are not pleased with the progress MiG-29, for now. We do not need excuses and explanations, already only the finished results.

 

I can understand the frustration but at the same time I can live with the lack of updates concerning the 29.

 

I'm sure ED will do a great job with the 29 as it has done with the 27 and it will be worth the wait.

 

Plus I can hold off getting trackir for a while yet as well ;) until the 29 gets a new cockpit.

 

I'm dreaming of XMas but theres plenty to look forward to if it doesn't happen this year.

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Who is 'we'?

all who love fulcrum

 

Yes, and if they would have started with the MiG-29 and left the F-15 to last, it would have been a different group of grumpy people.... no matter what ED does, someone is gonna be grumpy... welcome to the Flight Sim community...

I talk with a simple opinion ordinary user. Ordinary users are always right. If I get into the details, of course I know all the reasons why it is so. But a normal user is not required to be an ED analyst.

I can understand the frustration but at the same time I can live with the lack of updates concerning the 29.

 

I'm sure ED will do a great job with the 29 as it has done with the 27 and it will be worth the wait.

 

Plus I can hold off getting trackir for a while yet as well wink.gif until the 29 gets a new cockpit.

 

I'm dreaming of XMas but theres plenty to look forward to if it doesn't happen this year.

I agree completely, but if someone does not says publicly that waiting for the MiG-29, all it can take much longer. ED has priority, and I know it. Of course it is a lot has been done very well. Should continue...

“The people will believe what the media tells them they believe.” — George Orwell

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