Broken Hotas Warthog Joystick.....

[Bucic]

Engineering isn't the problem. This isn't rocket science we're talking about here, it's consumer joysticks. Toys, essentially. It would be easy to use large high-quality ball-bearings, CNC mill gimbal frames out of aluminum and sell the thing for $1,000. Of course, too few would buy it then. Companies like Thrustmaster have to toe the line between sale-ability and profitability. For what it's worth, I think the engineering and production quality of the HOTAS Warthog is already about as good as it gets for the consumer market. Sure, they could use a better grease and take some more time on the production line to apply said grease, but hey, nobody's perfect. :doh:

A common misconception. *Blatant and too common*. That allegedly most of imperfections, to say the least, in such products are there due to 'cost savings'. No. The reason they exist has been marked by me with asterisks. The bearers of that claim are usually people clueless as far as technology goes (a matter of klowledge) or enlighten excusers (a matter of belief).

 

It's really that simple. Both the technical and social background.

[aeliusg]

A common misconception. *Blatant and too common*. That allegedly most of imperfections, to say the least, in such products are there due to 'cost savings'. No. The reason they exist has been marked by me with asterisks. The bearers of that claim are usually people clueless as far as technology goes (a matter of klowledge) or enlighten excusers (a matter of belief).

 

It's really that simple. Both the technical and social background.

 

Well, OK then. :music_whistling:

 

Let me know when your perfect product is on the market. :D

[LeadDoctor]

"Weakpoint of the Warthog"

 

 

 

 

Just tried to order the gimble for my warthog and thrustmaster replided back saying the part isnt avalible. Now what to do?

[bacana.luke]

Did you send the receipt for the purchase of the product? What else do they ask for?

 

Hi all,

 

This problem started yesterday. I have a youtube video showing what is happening to the stick. It seems like something is broken inside. The stick shouldnt be moving/rotate like X52. Is there a fix to this? I have contacted Thrustmaster support since I purchased this in July 2013. Should be 2 year warranty I think in EU.

 

Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks

 

 

A

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

I wondered when first saw a warthog dissasembly video what piece exactly prevents the stick to "yaw" like that???...in fact, Im really worried about this everytime I screw the stick to the conection base and make the needed force to tighten it...also, I dont understand when assembling again the stick, how do you know that you are mounting the upper (bell like) gimball piece in the correct position??? I mean that the connection is pointing pararel to the "y" vertical axis...

 

Thanks and sorry for the little off topic...

[PiedDroit]

I wondered when first saw a warthog dissasembly video what piece exactly prevents the stick to "yaw" like that???...in fact, Im really worried about this everytime I screw the stick to the conection base and make the needed force to tighten it...also, I dont understand when assembling again the stick, how do you know that you are mounting the upper (bell like) gimball piece in the correct position??? I mean that the connection is pointing pararel to the "y" vertical axis...

 

Thanks and sorry for the little off topic...

if you hold the stick firmly (ie prevent twist) while tightening the nut it should be alright, the gimbal will not turn further than allowed by the stick-to-gimbal connection that has a special shape.

Also very tight fit is not necessary, this is not a motorcycle engine.

As soon as you hit the tightening point, add a little and no more.

If the stick lossens a bit while flying then no big deal, just lightly tighten it again.

 

Many people seem to believe it can take abuse but this is not true, be gentle! It is qualified as robust because it will keep it's tightness for years and not wear easily. Of course if you handle it like if it was made of steel you will damage it.

In that sense the reviews are misleading, people who don't overtighten just don't mention it because it might feel normal to them.

P. S. : if worried about tightness, maybe add a tiny amount of teflon tape so vibrations don't loosen the assembly- never tried it but worth a shot?

 

Mine has 4 years, I disassembled it completely once, partially numerous times, tried two types of extensions and disassembled each at least 4 times, modded it for reduced resistance, it can take it.

The tightening issue is also the reason why I didn't like the extension in the shape of simple threaded tube and prefered the one with a nut and shaped connectors, that retained the initial interlocking design of the stick-to-gimbal connector.

 

On the subject of the broken part, it is very unfortunate that users are not warned enough about this issue, that part is fragile and any WH user should be aware of it... I hope the OP will get a replacement part soon (3D print maybe ?).

Edited January 26, 2017 by PiedDroit

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Thanks for your reply mate!!

 

I didnt overtighten it (at least that was my intention) but even for reaching that "little" bit you mention, you need a bit of "torque"...even if you handle the stick there will be some torsion sended to the gimbal I think.

 

About the piece/system that prevents the torsion I still dont knowing what is it??...looking at some pictures/videos (I never disassembled mine yet) I still not understanding this. It looks like nothing prevents this according to what I can see in pictures as I cant find any lock/top piece:

 

 

 

 

I would like to understand this. I wish TM would have tell the OP's what was wrong with his unit so it would be clear what piece/s are in charge of prevent the stick to "yaw"...

[PiedDroit]

If you don't put strength it should be alright ;)

The piece that holds the magnet has a rectangular shape and insert into that small ball with a rectangular hole on top.This insertion takes the twisting torque from what I understand. I need to double check on that it's been a while I went this far.

I didnt see the broken piece but I would assume it is the magnet support that breaks.

Edited January 26, 2017 by PiedDroit

[Sokol1_br]

What broken - and allow stick "twist" like in OP video - is the "articulation Sphere" that goes inside the piece that you linked. This "ball" at right:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-30838-0-09061000-1484087064.jpg

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4126577/all/My_Broken_TM_Warthog_Stick_Gim

 

In some cases this tower that support the magnet - and fit inside the rectangular slot in the ball - ended broken too.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-5490-0-91016100-1485274990.jpg

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-5490-0-37756600-1485274571.jpg

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-5490-0-36167300-1485274764.jpg

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[PiedDroit]

i have a 2cm movement also on those axes after 3-4 years of use as many others

I cant check the video right now but this is not normal (2 cm play) . There can be 2 possibilites, one is that there is something broken.

Other is that the rubber gasket moved out of place and prevents the pressure plate to work on its full range.

On my WH I glued the gasket to the pressure plate because it became lose and wouldnt stay in place.

This rubber gasket is located between the cup (gimbal part if you wil) and the pressure plate.

[PiedDroit]

What broken - and allow stick "twist" like in OP video - is the "articulation Sphere" that goes inside the piece that you linked. This "ball" at right

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-30838-0-09061000-1484087064.jpg

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4126577/all/My_Broken_TM_Warthog_Stick_Gim

 

In some cases this tower that support the magnet - and fit inside the rectangular slot in the ball - ended broken too.

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-5490-0-91016100-1485274990.jpg

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-5490-0-37756600-1485274571.jpg

https://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-5490-0-36167300-1485274764.jpg

 

ok, this confirm. what I thought.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Great info!!, thanks all guys!!:thumbup:

 

Im really shocked with those pics :shocking: thats a really hard duty plastic and its totally fractured!!:shocking: ...could it be that those of you with this problem tend, unintentionally, to apply too much torque when playing or this is "normal" after some time of use?? Im very careful with my 2 weeks old WH but I would like to know if this is something I should expect after some time or not.

 

Also, I suspected too that the white rectangular piece containing the magnet was the only thing that could prevent the "yaw" when inserted into the rectangular hole of the inner sphere in the gimbal but also that this is NOT a good way to prevent this unless those two parts are extremely heavy duty...but after watching those broken inner sphere pictures I have to admit Im really surprised to see that the weakest part is actually the own sphere :huh: (or at least as weak as the magnet one) ...in fact I find this really impresive considering its rotating inside the larger sphere which is also inside the bell shaped one.

 

It looks like the tensions concentrate too much into the corners of the hole and the fatigue break then is a matter of time...they should increase the thickness if the whole inner sphere or round/reinforce the corners of the hole. Anyway Im a bit dissapointed with this design as I dont think this is a "good" way to prevent the stick from yawing :cry: , damn!!, I need this beauty to last me 5 years at least!!:P

[Sokol1_br]

ok, this confirm. what I thought.

 

Yes, and this show that even if the inner ball was made in metal like some people are trying, in this case the magnet "tower" can end broken if much torsion is applied to grip. Only the ball in metal will be not the solution. :D

Edited January 26, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[Thadiun Okona]

Great info!!, thanks all guys!!:thumbup:

 

Im really shocked with those pics :shocking: thats a really hard duty plastic and its totally fractured!!:shocking: ...could it be that those of you with this problem tend, unintentionally, to apply too much torque when playing or this is "normal" after some time of use?? Im very careful with my 2 weeks old WH but I would like to know if this is something I should expect after some time or not.

 

Also, I suspected too that the white rectangular piece containing the magnet was the only thing that could prevent the "yaw" when inserted into the rectangular hole of the inner sphere in the gimbal but also that this is NOT a good way to prevent this unless those two parts are extremely heavy duty...but after watching those broken inner sphere pictures I have to admit Im really surprised to see that the weakest part is actually the own sphere :huh: (or at least as weak as the magnet one) ...in fact I find this really impresive considering its rotating inside the larger sphere which is also inside the bell shaped one.

 

It looks like the tensions concentrate too much into the corners of the hole and the fatigue break then is a matter of time...they should increase the thickness if the whole inner sphere or round/reinforce the corners of the hole. Anyway Im a bit dissapointed with this design as I dont think this is a "good" way to prevent the stick from yawing :cry: , damn!!, I need this beauty to last me 5 years at least!!:P

 

The crack always propagates in the same location, the short span between the rectangular slot to the pin in the side. This plastic does not have the required shear and tensile strength to have that thin of a cross section on that part for loads the stick realistically experiences over the course of its life.

 

Predictable/calculable things like this and the way they saw fit to release Cougar gimbals make me wonder if Thrustmaster's 'engineering dept' is an unenthusiastic guy that says 'whatever, it'll work' most of the time since they always miss the obvious outcomes like this yet commit the to the tooling to mass produce a fatal flaw. Engineering this single component to withstand reasonable loads would have added so little cost to the overall production, but here we are discussing Achilles heel.

 

I'm working on metal ones (pewter is likely strong enough not to be the weakest link anymore and is much cheaper/easier to produce than bronze, but if I have to go that route I can), as they are the key to the twist mechanism I'm working on for Warthog, but am focusing on my left hand grips first.

[PiedDroit]

[...] , damn!!, I need this beauty to last me 5 years at least!!:P

Don't worry, now you know the weakness you'll make sure to avoid breaking it ;)

Mine is 4 yrs and still in super good shape despite multiple disassemblings.

Not many users are breaking their stick, even those who tinker a lot with it (well, based on how many people talk about the WH on the forums).

 

The crack always propagates in the same location,[...] the twist mechanism I'm working on for Warthog, but am focusing on my left hand grips first.

 

Good stuff !

I'll be interested to see your replacement parts.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

The crack always propagates in the same location, the short span between the rectangular slot to the pin in the side. This plastic does not have the required shear and tensile strength to have that thin of a cross section on that part for loads the stick realistically experiences over the course of its life.

 

Predictable/calculable things like this and the way they saw fit to release Cougar gimbals make me wonder if Thrustmaster's 'engineering dept' is an unenthusiastic guy that says 'whatever, it'll work' most of the time since they always miss the obvious outcomes like this yet commit the to the tooling to mass produce a fatal flaw. Engineering this single component to withstand reasonable loads would have added so little cost to the overall production, but here we are discussing Achilles heel.

 

I'm working on metal ones (pewter is likely strong enough not to be the weakest link anymore and is much cheaper/easier to produce than bronze, but if I have to go that route I can), as they are the key to the twist mechanism I'm working on for Warthog, but am focusing on my left hand grips first.

 

Totally agree with you :thumbup:

 

Don't worry, now you know the weakness you'll make sure to avoid breaking it ;)

Mine is 4 yrs and still in super good shape despite multiple disassemblings.

Not many users are breaking their stick, even those who tinker a lot with it (well, based on how many people talk about the WH on the forums).

 

 

 

Good stuff !

I'll be interested to see your replacement parts.

 

 

Yes, now we know it...the problem is Im not sure we can avoid it :( but I guess being gentle with it should make it last quite a bit...I said 5 years but in reality I want 10 :D

[Dafiew]

Well after 8 years and thousands of hours my warthog stick has died :( articulation sphere broken and magnet tower broken, tried to repair it but the tower is beyond repair, anyone has a solution a part from buying a new base from TM? they are not selling the top part with the tower separately... :joystick::joystick::joystick:

[Bwaze]

Aren't they selling the whole "gimbal" part, with magnet, sensor and connectors? I know some people bought them when they damaged just the stick connector on top, but it wasn't cheap - close to 100€ with shipping.

[Dafiew]

Aren't they selling the whole "gimbal" part, with magnet, sensor and connectors? I know some people bought them when they damaged just the stick connector on top, but it wasn't cheap - close to 100€ with shipping.

 

 

 

They said only the articulation sphere can be bought separately I'll call them again today

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

Can you tell us if you have had any other issues with the stick over all those years please??, I mean like broken buttons, axis, dead zones, weathering of any kind, etc. Also if you have the throttle I would love if you can share the same experience with it...

 

Thanks!

[Slims]

So i was wondering, if i could machine these 3 parts that make up the gimbal + the pressure plate out of metal (steel), and assemble it together do i have any chance that the hal sensor would still work, since it`s magnetic and all ? Is it worth a try or is it useless ? Also what should the tolerance be, as i doubt i could get it really identical some really small differences would exist. I don`t have access to casting, also because creating a mold using my existing hotas gimbal is quite expensive, and not worth experimenting. But i could try and machine these parts as i know some guys :). At first i would try with steel, and maybe if it`s working maybe later with aluminium. Do you guys think it might work ? Thanks.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Slims

[Lausbub78]

I would advice against steel. Not only because of magnetic ,it's just not optimal when steel parts rub at each other. You would need some kind of lube . You could use Brass,it as less friction than steel on steel and you would not need lube. And the magnetism isn't a problem anmyore aswell.

Hm , on another note,it may be a problem when Brass or steel dust ,which could come over time from little bit of wear, gets on the electronics somehow...

Edited July 3, 2017 by Lausbub78

[Slims]

Really good points. Thanks a lot. This is bugging me for a real long time, and somehow i would like to give it a try, but there are some stuff i did not take into account. Never thought of brass untill now. Excesive lube would decrease the risk of dust i think, but still a risk would exist. This would really be a problem on the "pins" that hold the first 2 parts of the gimbal for which I was thinking of maybe using some sort of bearing.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Slims

[Lausbub78]

Maybe some kind of plastic,like POM or PTFE, would work. It is pretty strong and has almost no friction. Though I believe it is expensive.

 

Edit: I just saw your edited post,regarding doing the whole thing in aluminium. Please don't, aluminium rubbing on aluminium is pretty bad. It may feel smooth for a short while,but after a rather short time you will experience a lot of friction. Aluminium is not good for gliding parts. Maybe if the parts where polished , but even a small and hard to see chip will make troubles later.

 

Maybe it is enough to just replace those pins with brass or something else and see how it works?

Edited July 3, 2017 by Lausbub78

[Slims]

Yes but wouldn`t the plastic part rubbing on the brass pin, the hole i mean, in time enlarge and end up with a broken ball like the guy with the broken ball a few posts up ? Even with a good grease in time it would simply wore off.

 

Edit: Yea didn`t think it quite thru with the aluminium thing. Thanks.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Slims