Which chopper to start with?

[scrtagnt69]

Welcome aboard !

[Yurgon]

I can't remember, does the Mi-8 have tutorials yet?

 

Yup, there are "Cold Start" and "Weapons Employment" trainings available. Enough to get started, but not really in-depth. And unfortunately, still no manual, only the Quick Start guide that was already there when the Mi-8 was first released. :(

 

Regarding the question on which helo to fly first, there was this statement I've been looking for...

 

Ah, here it is! From Nightmare515, a real life AH-64 pilot (posted in The AH-64 Apache Thread):

 

One of the hardest things about learning how to fly the 64 was learning how to STOP flying. We start off flying Bell 206's (TH-67) which is a bare bones helicopter with none of the fancy computer stability control and all that. Getting into the 64 we all still wanted to fly so we kept moving all the controls and trying to fly like we were used to with the Bell's.

 

The words of my instructor still ring in my ears to this day. "We pay millions of dollars for all these computer stability controls to help us fly. The helicopter itself can fly better than you can now stop touching ****!" lol

 

This is actually true for DCS UH-1H and Ka-50 as well. :thumbup:

 

If you plan on flying different choppers, I'd say the Huey is a perfect one to begin with, and then later on transition to high tech helos like Ka-50 (well, it's late 80's high-tech, but that's still a lot higher tech than the Huey :D).

 

And who knows, if we ever get DCS AH-64, I guess knowing how to fly the Ka-50 will probably be a good basis.

[CookPassBabtridge]

@ Yurgon - haha that's cool. Going on my first experiences with the Huey, I can well see why they want to do so much flying. Good god she's a grumpy old mare isn't she? :) HOVERING. Good lord I have never concentrated so much in my life! And navigating around VRS, transverse flow and retreating blade stall, I've learnt a hell of a lot just in a couple of days, more than A-10C at this stage thats for sure.

 

Going from that to a heli that does it all for you, must feel kind of odd :D

 

@ scrtagnt69 - thanks! :thumbup:

 

It REALLY feels like a challenge to do even the simplest things in this bird, but such a sense of achievement when you do something successfuly. Even getting it to hover in ground effect and staying above the same bloody spot, and managing to taxi in a straight line... not very good at the former, ok at the latter.

 

Time to start bingeing on YouTube video tutorials :book:

[molevitch]

You may want to get a FFB stick with an extension to get that real hell vibe. Makes control easier, and trimming more functional.

[SilentGun]

The autopilot is a huge help on long flights but other than that it's not needed to takeoff and fly short hops

[WildBillKelsoe]

Huey-> Mi-8-> Blackshark

 

In order of standard->non-standard.

 

In my HUMBLE opinion.

[Davis0079]

attack chopper > cargo heli

[Barra1]

Just adding to what others have said, I've flown the Blackshark a lot and find that once you learn how to trim and use the autopilot channels she almost flies like a fixed wing bird.

 

I've just bought the Huey and that's like sitting on top of a pogo stick! As someone else said, after flying the Blackshark I thought I new how to fly helos. Then I took the Huey up .......

[Suchacz]

...it depends on your preferences. Huey is pure "stick and rudder" machine, in its oposition, BS has a great influence of stabilisation channels/autopilot to its controls. Hip is somewhere in between.

Flying the Huey... just you and the machine :joystick:

 

 

Flying the Black Shark... you must explain to the autopilot where you want to go :D

 

 

...but both are fun to fly, both of them in its personal way :thumbup:

Edited September 14, 2014 by Suchacz

[shagrat]

If you learn to fly the Huey and get the feel for the stick the conversion to a Mi-8 or Ka-50 is relatively easy. When you understand and master the stabilization channels / autopilot of the later two it is pretty easy actually.

I would always recommend the Huey! Difficult at first, but a lot of fun and you learn flying a helo. Ka-50 is more mastering the systems and how to let the stabilisation/autopilot fly the machine, while employing weapon systems.

[CookPassBabtridge]

You may want to get a FFB stick with an extension to get that real hell vibe. Makes control easier, and trimming more functional.

 

I would actually love a proper cyclic and collective, but I know I am going to spending about $1000 to do it. I wish thrustmaster would do a deal and make a black shark setup, it would be awesome.

[CookPassBabtridge]

The autopilot is a huge help on long flights but other than that it's not needed to takeoff and fly short hops

 

Thanks man :D I actually quite like being in charge, though sticking on the AP is great for foraging about looking at switches and things

[CookPassBabtridge]

Huey-> Mi-8-> Blackshark

 

In order of standard->non-standard.

 

In my HUMBLE opinion.

 

Thanks Wild Bill, yeah I have jumped in with the Huey, but actually found myself ricocheting around a bit with the 'shark. I am finding its actually helpful to fly the Huey, struggle with stuff like transverse flow affecting landing, and then switch to the shark for a panic-free version of the same maneuver :) Sort of like a learning-with-water-wings approach after being chucked in the deep end once or twice!

 

I am going to practice VFR glide-slope type landings with the shark to at least get the technique down as I am new to simming in general, then switch back to the Huey to learn how to cope with her .... idiosyncrasies :D

[CookPassBabtridge]

attack chopper > cargo heli

 

Hey man, infantry needs their burgers and tootsie rolls!

[CookPassBabtridge]

Just adding to what others have said, I've flown the Blackshark a lot and find that once you learn how to trim and use the autopilot channels she almost flies like a fixed wing bird.

 

I've just bought the Huey and that's like sitting on top of a pogo stick! As someone else said, after flying the Blackshark I thought I new how to fly helos. Then I took the Huey up .......

 

heh heh yeah I know what you mean. I am bouncing between the two as I go, to compare "without panic" and "with panic" :D

[CookPassBabtridge]

...it depends on your preferences. Huey is pure "stick and rudder" machine, in its oposition, BS has a great influence of stabilisation channels/autopilot to its controls. Hip is somewhere in between.

 

Awww man is that Total Recall? Awesome. Google drivable cars dept watched that and went "THATS A GREAT IDEA LETS DO IT". Johnny Cab!

[CookPassBabtridge]

If you learn to fly the Huey and get the feel for the stick the conversion to a Mi-8 or Ka-50 is relatively easy. When you understand and master the stabilization channels / autopilot of the later two it is pretty easy actually.

I would always recommend the Huey! Difficult at first, but a lot of fun and you learn flying a helo. Ka-50 is more mastering the systems and how to let the stabilisation/autopilot fly the machine, while employing weapon systems.

 

Actually I do have a question about the Huey, would be good to get an experienced ear on it!

 

In the manual it talks about transverse flow happening when you first start moving, and that it leads to an extra downforce on the rear of the rotor disc. It says that gyroscopic precession leads to a roll "sidewards" as a result, plus pitch up tendency, which all makes sense.

 

However in the game, the roll is to the left, but the Huey has counterclockwise blade rotation. As far as I understand it, in a gyroscope, an applied force is felt 90 degrees to its application point and in the direction of rotation, so the roll should be to the RIGHT, not the left.

 

Have I missed something here, or is the model a bit off?

 

:smartass:

[Rogue Trooper]

ENG OPER IGN - R is also how I have it in the huey.... sweet is the momentary toggle.

 

I take it you have a TM warthog set up, If you are into choppers then I suggest you do this as fast as you can afford.

Your warthog setup must have an extension on the joystick and it is a must!

The Joystick must be between your legs.... it sounds sexual and believe me.... it is!

[Rogue Trooper]

This is retreating blade stall that you feel. as the chopper moves forward the retreating blade reduces in relative speed and thus reduces lift, whilst the advancing blade increases speed and lift.

[CookPassBabtridge]

ENG OPER IGN - R is also how I have it in the huey.... sweet is the momentary toggle.

 

I take it you have a TM warthog set up, If you are into choppers then I suggest you do this as fast as you can afford.

Your warthog setup must have an extension on the joystick and it is a must!

The Joystick must be between your legs.... it sounds sexual and believe me.... it is!

 

Hehe I have been hearing this a lot :) Though I am thinking a full force feedback cyclic and dedicaited collective is the way to go, I realise I need to spend a STOOPID amount of money to do it :O

 

Where might a gentleman of a stick-y persuasion look for .. a joystick extension (this kind of thing totally is my bag, baby)? All of a sudden my ability to google has evaporated.

 

*goes off to google and stop being lazy*

[Rogue Trooper]

A 100 mm Simpit is the one I use currently, but I am hoping to go over to wasy100's 120mm extension.

[CookPassBabtridge]

This is retreating blade stall that you feel. as the chopper moves forward the retreating blade reduces in relative speed and thus reduces lift, whilst the advancing blade increases speed and lift.

 

Thank you for responding :) However I don't think that's right for the low speed condition. The manual talks about retreating blade stall happening at high speed, due to the relative wind on the retreating portion of the rotor being reduced (vector subtraction - high forward speed is subtracted from the rotor speed).

 

Transverse flow, the manual happily tootles, happens at low speed as you transition into forward movement due to the rear of the rotor having greater downwash.

 

I think the effect is the same - pitch up and roll, but the causes are different.

[Rogue Trooper]

As they say.... every milimetre counts.

[Rogue Trooper]

so you are talking about hovering?

[CookPassBabtridge]

so you are talking about hovering?

 

Aye, when you start to move forward from a hover :)

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/accp/al0966/le3.htm#fig27

 

Maybe I just didn;t watch close enough, but it seems the Huey rolls LEFT during this phase of flight, whilst the info I am looking at suggests it should be right. I will have to get back in the 'pit and check...