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With this model "all physics apply" in regards to the power setting you have set with the collective and the torque applied to the airframe and the counterforce you apply to the tail rotor to stop the torque applied.

 

Whilst in the hover your rudder pedals are pushed a lot to the left.

when you transition to forward flight the chopper gains lift which in turn pulls the nose up, you counteract this by pushing the nose forward to gain more speed.

Could this be what you are seeing?

Also are you gradually decreasing rudder as you transition?

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With this model "all physics apply" in regards to the power setting you have set with the collective and the torque applied to the airframe and the counterforce you apply to the tail rotor to stop the torque applied.

 

Whilst in the hover your rudder pedals are pushed a lot to the left.

when you transition to forward flight the chopper gains lift which in turn pulls the nose up, you counteract this by pushing the nose forward to gain more speed.

Could this be what you are seeing?

Also are you gradually decreasing rudder as you transition?

 

I'm not sure, I had read about the transverse flow thing and was looking out for it, so I may not have factored in other inputs. Thanks for the tip, I will try some more take offs and see what happens :D

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Oh my god learning to fly the Huey is the most frustrating experience I have had in quite some time. I'm practising landings after partially giving up on hovering, and I am really struggling to keep control during the transitional period where you drop under 40 knots.

 

The video tells you to bleed off speed, increase collective as you drop under 40, and let the stick forward slightly to prevent a sudden decrease in speed, but it seems no matter what I do I suddenly lose a ton of knots and hit VRS. Either that or I increase collective as suggested and just end up not descending / trouble tracking glide slope.

 

I was nearing ragequit level so I thought I would stop and breathe :) When I am less ashamed of my flying I may upload a track.


Edited by CookPassBabtridge

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Oh my god learning to fly the Huey is the most frustrating experience I have had in quite some time. I'm practising landings after partially giving up on hovering, and I am really struggling to keep control during the transitional period where you drop under 40 knots.

 

The video tells you to bleed off speed, increase collective as you drop under 40, and let the stick forward slightly to prevent a sudden decrease in speed, but it seems no matter what I do I suddenly lose a ton of knots and hit VRS. Either that or I increase collective as suggested and just end up not descending / trouble tracking glide slope.

 

I was nearing ragequit level so I thought I would stop and breathe :) When I am less ashamed of my flying I may upload a track.

Timing. Timing is key here - you now know how the helo reacts, now you must find the right timing for increasing the collective. But no worries, we all were there, we all eventually figgured it out ... more or less. :o)

 

My tip: if you raise the collective when you think, the helo starts to drop ... then it is 0.5-1.0 sec. too late. Do it a tad bit earlier. Don't wait for the helo, anticipate what it will do.

Also, while keep both of your eyes outside the cockpit to maneuver and see where you going, keep a third eye (:D) on the variometer for a better awareness what is happening with the helo.

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Timing. Timing is key here - you now know how the helo reacts, now you must find the right timing for increasing the collective. But no worries, we all were there, we all eventually figgured it out ... more or less. :o)

 

My tip: if you raise the collective when you think, the helo starts to drop ... then it is 0.5-1.0 sec. too late. Do it a tad bit earlier. Don't wait for the helo, anticipate what it will do.

Also, while keep both of your eyes outside the cockpit to maneuver and see where you going, keep a third eye (:D) on the variometer for a better awareness what is happening with the helo.

 

Thanks flagrum I will bear that in mind. The biggest issue seems to be the sudden pitch up which leads to huge speed loss, which seems to happen even with the stick forward. I guess its a balance issue. Also should I be setting my warthog sensitivity quite low? At the moment I have quite a curve set to keep it docile near the middle, and it curves up to an x saturation to about 70 (pitch and roll).

 

I think what may be exacerbating the issue is my low frame rate. I am using my oculus to fly (I got used to the judder), and to be honest I need a new rig but nvidia are being slowwwww with new cards. If you are saying that half a second makes a big difference, then it makes sense that I always feel like I am chasing the heli. Everything is at minimum graphics already :D

 

I tried just using the normal monitor and it was tougher. I need some new silicon!

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Ok that last bit is a HUGE part of your problem... Turn the graphics way down if your rig can't hande it.. You are not only fighting the physics of helicopter flight but your system can't handle all the detail so it will run very inconsistent foiling any and all attempts at controlling it. (I know this as I had the same issues until I bought a new video card that could handle the detail. ) With my old card I had to turn nearly everything down to mid or even low settings, then the sim smooths out and you have some consistency in how it feels..

 

Try turning down clutter and objects / distance... Since you are trying to hover and land you don't need to see objects 50 miles away so turn them way down and experiment with different settings to get your frame rate up. You will be amazed at how much better it handles and easier when it is fluid and consistent and not choppy...

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Ok that last bit is a HUGE part of your problem... Turn the graphics way down if your rig can't hande it.. You are not only fighting the physics of helicopter flight but your system can't handle all the detail so it will run very inconsistent foiling any and all attempts at controlling it. (I know this as I had the same issues until I bought a new video card that could handle the detail. ) With my old card I had to turn nearly everything down to mid or even low settings, then the sim smooths out and you have some consistency in how it feels..

 

Try turning down clutter and objects / distance... Since you are trying to hover and land you don't need to see objects 50 miles away so turn them way down and experiment with different settings to get your frame rate up. You will be amazed at how much better it handles and easier when it is fluid and consistent and not choppy...

 

Hehe I know you're right but I'm at minimum settings already lol. Hence why I am thinking of sending rude letters to Nvidia to make them hurry the **** up :D My poor little gaming laptop was quite the champ in his day, but now a bit past his prime :cry:

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And look at building yourself a desktop rig with a decent graphics card, way better than a gaming laptop to run DCS .

 

And look up the DCS guru of choppers, PeterP....

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Oh my god learning to fly the Huey is the most frustrating experience I have had in quite some time. I'm practising landings after partially giving up on hovering, and I am really struggling to keep control during the transitional period

I was nearing ragequit level so I thought I would stop and breathe :) When I am less ashamed of my flying I may upload a track.

 

Forget the Huey for learning to fly, best advice I can give.

 

Black Shark is absolutely the way to go, once you've gotten the trim down correct, it requires a fraction of the effort to master landing and takeoff.

 

Once I could fly BS, I had no difficulty transitioning to the Huey.

 

 

I'm withdrawing my "poor advice" comment. I'll just note that many of the forum users are absolutely hardcore, while well meaning and enthusiastic, and forget what it's like to be a noob.


Edited by Huckle
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Forget the Huey for learning to fly, best advice I can give.

 

Black Shark is absolutely the way to go, once you've gotten the trim down correct, it requires a fraction of the effort to master landing and takeoff.

 

Once I could fly BS, I had no difficulty transitioning to the Huey.

 

I'm just embarrassed that you're receiving such poor advice from so many.

 

Hmmm embarrassed by everyone elses poor advice eh? (Well sure since yours is the only real advice worth listening to right?)

 

Here's the problem with you saying everyone elses advice is so poor.. Had you bothered to take the time to actually READ what the OP stated, you would find this little GEM of info... "I want to learn on the most choppery chopper, as in the helicopter that will translate the most to other, 'standard' helicopters."

 

So yeah, the Black Shark is as far away from that statement as is physically possible in DCS... Nearly nothing from the Black Shark is representative to the rest of the chopper world so try reading what is stated by the OP before stating that everyone else advice is poor...

 

Based on that criteria the Huey is absolutely hands down the only choice... It is also the most difficult because of it.. Once mastered though, you will be able to transition to any rotor craft out there quite easily.. And in that respect it is also the most realistic as far as learning to fly one in the real world.. Even pilots of the Black Shark are not going to learn on a Shark, they are going to learn on a conventional helicopter much like the Huey and will have to master that before transitioning to the Shark..

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The BS is a helicopter with training wheels. No yaw/power juggling and minimal vrc compared to Huey. I had no trouble flying the Huey after I learnt on the Shark.

 

Regarding advice, the best kind tells you what you need, not necessarily what you want. If the OP is getting to rage quit point, maybe it's time to point out a gentler slope.

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When I am less ashamed of my flying I may upload a track.

 

Good plan, you should do that. Even though we're probably not going to be able to tell you the one thing that suddenly makes all your troubles go away, we may be able to point out specific things that will help you. :thumbup:

 

My experience was that, after some 10 or 20 hours, it suddenly "clicked", just like aerial refueling. For hours and hours, flying the Huey (and AAR in the A-10c) made my wrists hurt and I felt like this was simply impossible. And then, out of experience and rather suddenly, the muscle memory took over and my hands started to do the work that all the concentration in the world could not achieve before.

 

From that point on, the learning process turned from pain to fun. :)

 

The other day, I was flying a mission (with a rather poorly placed pickup zone IMO) where I had to pick up some grunts on the side of a steep hill. It was the first time ever I was able to land on just the right skid and keep the chopper in a steady hover with minimal ground contact so that the script recognized the Huey as "landed" and allowed me to pick up the troops. I was proud as hell pulling that thing off. When I started flying the Huey, I wouldn't have believed anyone could have performed that maneuver in DCS. And that's what's so amazingly rewarding about this sim. :thumbup:

 

Once I could fly BS, I had no difficulty transitioning to the Huey.

 

I thought it was going to be like that. My experience was quite different, though. Admittedly, when I first flew the Huey, the flight model was much more difficult than it is today. As it was made easier (and more realistic, as far as I can tell from the posts by real life pilots, including Huey pilots), it started to feel a lot easier, so it's hard to tell how tough the transition is for someone who didn't learn the Huey in it's first release state.

 

Still, the transition was much more difficult than I had anticipated, and I have read very few statements suggesting, as you do, that the transition from Huey to Black Shark is easier than the other way around.

 

I'm just embarrassed that you're receiving such poor advice from so many.

 

I understand and respect that your experience differs, but calling this "poor advice" is... poor advice.

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The other day, I was flying a mission (with a rather poorly placed pickup zone IMO) where I had to pick up some grunts on the side of a steep hill. It was the first time ever I was able to land on just the right skid and keep the chopper in a steady hover with minimal ground contact so that the script recognized the Huey as "landed" and allowed me to pick up the troops. I was proud as hell pulling that thing off. When I started flying the Huey, I wouldn't have believed anyone could have performed that maneuver in DCS. And that's what's so amazingly rewarding .

 

There's a good chapter dealing with similar situation in "To the Limit". Not as well written as Chickenhawk, but lots of interesting details straight from the source. Worth a glance if the OP needs a rest from exploding :)

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It took me a lot less time to get comfortable with the Huey having already learned the Ka-50 than it would have to get comfortable with the Huey from a standing start. That said, it took me longer to get comfortable with the Shark coming at it with no rotorcraft experience.

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There's a good chapter dealing with similar situation in "To the Limit". Not as well written as Chickenhawk, but lots of interesting details straight from the source. Worth a glance if the OP needs a rest from exploding :)

 

Sounds interesting, I added it to my yet-to-read-list. Thx. :thumbup:

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Chaps

 

Just saw the replies this morning and thought I would point out, perhaps to stave off further arguments, earlier in the thread I mentioned I have been moving between the shark AND the Huey, for exactly the reasons mentioned - for a while I thought I was doing something wrong or had setup issues so flew a few landings in the shark. It was of course much easier and I could do a glideslope landing, in order to get the feel for what an "event free" one should feel like.

 

Ultimately its all good experience, and a bit of frustration is not going to put me off flying these lovely helos :) If anything its all the sweeter when it clicks, as Yurgon said :D I also like the idea that this is what pilots of yore would have gone through before getting treated to an uber techno chopper :)

 

I will come back later and read the replies in a bit more detail, thanks again for the input!

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Forget the Huey for learning to fly, best advice I can give.

 

Black Shark is absolutely the way to go, once you've gotten the trim down correct, it requires a fraction of the effort to master landing and takeoff.

 

Once I could fly BS, I had no difficulty transitioning to the Huey(...)

You are aware You're practically saying learn how to drive an automatic gear car, without clutch and shift gear, after that it is much easier to relearn to drive a shift gear?!

In Germany, where shift gear is the standard car, you can get your driving licence, training on automatic cars, only you are not permitted to drive a shift gear, only automatics.(at least it was that way when I was in driving school).

 

When you wanted to drive a shift gear you had to take some lessons and a test again.

The other way round you just learn to drive a shift gear and you may drive an automatic shift as you wish!

Huey is the same. You learn how to fly(!) a "Helicopter" (...a real one with tail rotor, typical behaviour and physics), you will notice what I mean when switching between Huey and Mi-8 Hip... you can fly the Huey, you'll learn the Hip easily! Just right rudder rather than left etc. And you need to pull collective earlier on slowing down to avoid VRS... going to the BlackShark flying is quite easy... you struggle with the AutoPilot system, but actual flying is easy.

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You are aware You're practically saying learn how to drive an automatic gear car, without clutch and shift gear, after that it is much easier to relearn to drive a shift gear?!

 

Yes, that's correct. They don't put fighter pilots in an F-16 on day one of training.

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All I can say is that as a fixed wing fan, I have all the choppers, the only one I ever fly is the Huey. Great fun and simple to learn. It is the obvious choice for a beginner pilot imo and the firepower will keep people interested as they learn.

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By the way, we had a total newbie join our little DCS team recently. He saw the Huey and wanted to try that... so he ended up with a new PC and a Huey licence. Did the install and he took his first 3 "training hours" in the Huey. He has only a Logitech 3D available and twist stick plus tiny collective isn't making this easier. Yet, he learned the take off and basic flyings easily and started with rolling landings on a runway that same session... hovering will take a little training, good flare into hover and a proper landing evenore so, but I wouldn't say it is too difficult. What may be the difference is to get advice and corrections from an experienced Huey simmer.

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By the way, we had a total newbie join our little DCS team recently. He saw the Huey and wanted to try that... so he ended up with a new PC and a Huey licence. Did the install and he took his first 3 "training hours" in the Huey. He has only a Logitech 3D available and twist stick plus tiny collective isn't making this easier. Yet, he learned the take off and basic flyings easily and started with rolling landings on a runway that same session... hovering will take a little training, good flare into hover and a proper landing evenore so, but I wouldn't say it is too difficult. What may be the difference is to get advice and corrections from an experienced Huey simmer.

 

Wow I am impressed :) I really should join a squadron or something and stop being such an avoidant shut in :cold:

 

I can land the Huey 'on the run' at the moment, with a little skid at the end, it just wouldn't be a comfy touch down for any passengers :D But I'm gonna keep practising proper glideslope landings until I can put it down on the runway numbers!. All you guys have really helped.


Edited by CookPassBabtridge

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Good plan, you should do that. Even though we're probably not going to be able to tell you the one thing that suddenly makes all your troubles go away, we may be able to point out specific things that will help you. :thumbup:

 

My experience was that, after some 10 or 20 hours, it suddenly "clicked", just like aerial refueling. For hours and hours, flying the Huey (and AAR in the A-10c) made my wrists hurt and I felt like this was simply impossible. And then, out of experience and rather suddenly, the muscle memory took over and my hands started to do the work that all the concentration in the world could not achieve before.

 

From that point on, the learning process turned from pain to fun. :)

 

The other day, I was flying a mission (with a rather poorly placed pickup zone IMO) where I had to pick up some grunts on the side of a steep hill. It was the first time ever I was able to land on just the right skid and keep the chopper in a steady hover with minimal ground contact so that the script recognized the Huey as "landed" and allowed me to pick up the troops. I was proud as hell pulling that thing off. When I started flying the Huey, I wouldn't have believed anyone could have performed that maneuver in DCS. And that's what's so amazingly rewarding about this sim. :thumbup:

 

 

 

I thought it was going to be like that. My experience was quite different, though. Admittedly, when I first flew the Huey, the flight model was much more difficult than it is today. As it was made easier (and more realistic, as far as I can tell from the posts by real life pilots, including Huey pilots), it started to feel a lot easier, so it's hard to tell how tough the transition is for someone who didn't learn the Huey in it's first release state.

 

Still, the transition was much more difficult than I had anticipated, and I have read very few statements suggesting, as you do, that the transition from Huey to Black Shark is easier than the other way around.

 

 

 

I understand and respect that your experience differs, but calling this "poor advice" is... poor advice.

 

Hi Yurgon

 

Thanks for the (classy) reply once again!

 

That is very much what I am hoping for. Its a bit like playing Dark Souls - immensely frustrating until that point when you win! As pointed out above its probably also doubly hard when learning purely from trial and error, rather than having an experienced hand to guide you.

 

That moment you decribe with touching down one skid, thats EXACTLY why I wanted to get into flight sims. Hard work paying off and letting you do something deeply satisfying. "Turning from pain to fun". I will look forward to that! :D


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