Jump to content

F-15C poor performance under 350kts


fitness88
 Share

Recommended Posts

The F-15C with the new modeling doesn't handle very well under 350kts. It's sluggish and doesn't respond smoothly, actually quite twitchy and sensitive to stalls which makes landing very intense. I couldn't imagine dog fighting with a MIG-29 which excels in turns at that speed.

 

Also the feeling when flying is that you are not tightly strapped into the cockpit. With each slight movement the plane makes you have an exaggerated body movement affect as though you are free floating.

 

Does anyone else find this also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm certainly not an expert on the F-15C's flight dynamics however I'm able to maintain controlled flight all the way down to the stall limit. Throttle control and very light stick input is crucial. Using ATT Hold can also ease control. Regarding the exagerated head movements, do you have your view controls bound to any device?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The F-15 is controllable down to the 200's of knots depending on weight. I regularly take on MiG's at low speed without too much trouble.

 

Corner speed is 450 ish, so below that don't expect the best from the aircraft.

[sIGPIC]http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/Exorcet/F-15singaturebaseACOmodifiedcomp-1.jpg[/sIGPIC]

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm certainly not an expert on the F-15C's flight dynamics however I'm able to maintain controlled flight all the way down to the stall limit. Throttle control and very light stick input is crucial. Using ATT Hold can also ease control. Regarding the exagerated head movements, do you have your view controls bound to any device?

 

My views are not bound...it's just a lot of head bobble movement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a real pilot who has flown many high performance jets (not the eagle). I'm really impressed with the eagles flight model. Most of the other flight model feel pretty good too.

 

I have not gone crazy exploring the eagles flight model but so far it feels really right to me. I love the buffet now ( the sound and shake). It gives the jet a very realistic feel to me.

 

The f-86 has a heavy/ sluggish at the slow speeds that does feel a bit off to me. I may not have things set right on my end. It feels a little like a lead sled.

 

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the flight models these guys are creating. I'm not trying to discount your impressions though.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a real pilot who has flown many high performance jets (not the eagle). I'm really impressed with the eagles flight model. Most of the other flight model feel pretty good too.

 

I have not gone crazy exploring the eagles flight model but so far it feels really right to me. I love the buffet now ( the sound and shake). It gives the jet a very realistic feel to me.

 

The f-86 has a heavy/ sluggish at the slow speeds that does feel a bit off to me. I may not have things set right on my end. It feels a little like a lead sled.

 

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the flight models these guys are creating. I'm not trying to discount your impressions though.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Perhaps my comparing the handling of the F-15C and the MIG-29S is not realistic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had exactly the same feeling. I'm no pliot of course but it's just hard for me to believe F-15C is so sluggish and stall-prone under 350kts.

I was told the PFM is still a work in progress, hopefully things may be different in the future.

 

Thanks flyICE good to know I'm not alone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the F-15c flight model now, I have gotten used to treating her gently at slower speeds. That said, if it isn't quite right then I wouldn't complain if they changed certain aspects. I can't imagine going back to the SFM now that is for sure. I actually fly the F-15c more than any of the full on modules these days. It will keep me very happy until the F-18 arrives... and maybe the full on F-15c?...

 

I think my curves are set to about 30, I'll have to check, might even have a play around to see how the feel changes at different levels when I get time.

[sIGPIC]sigpic67951_1.gif[/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe the ingame F-15 handles roughly as it should, which means not very good at slow speeds but excellent at high speeds. The low aspect ratio wing without any leading edge devices will tend to hurt it in any sustained turning matches, so I usually just stay fast and maneuver mostly in the vertical.

 

The Su27 & 33 with their lifting body design and leading edge flaps on the other hand will obviously do much better in sustained turns, and delight in being pulled into hard maneuvers even at lower speeds. Will be nice to see how their AFM's come out though, I'm expecting more rapid pitch movements will be possible, enabling the pilot to be able to do the Cobra maneuver :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps my comparing the handling of the F-15C and the MIG-29S is not realistic.

 

Not really, considering 1) they are two different aircraft and will thus handle differently, and 2) the Mig-29 is still a SFM which is pretty much just flying on rails. Mig-29 and Su-27 are no where close to realistic flight models at the current time.

 

I wish I could give more useful advise on how to fix this for you, but outside of the "check your controls and axis settings" you've already received, I can't really think of anything. I have no issue with performance control anywhere over 200kts, so I do think something in the settings might be off.

VR Cockpit (link):

Custom Throttletek F/A-18C Throttle w/ Hall Sensors + Otto switches | Slaw Device RX Viper Pedals w/ Damper | VPC T-50 Base + 15cm Black Sahaj Extension + TM Hornet or Warthog Grip | Super Warthog Wheel Stand Pro | Steelcase Leap V2 + JetSeat SE

 

VR Rig:

Pimax 5K+ | ASUS ROG Strix 1080Ti | Intel i7-9700K | Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master | Corsair H115i RGB Platinum | 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 | Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe the ingame F-15 handles roughly as it should, which means not very good at slow speeds but excellent at high speeds. The low aspect ratio wing without any leading edge devices will tend to hurt it in any sustained turning matches, so I usually just stay fast and maneuver mostly in the vertical.

 

The Su27 & 33 with their lifting body design and leading edge flaps on the other hand will obviously do much better in sustained turns, and delight in being pulled into hard maneuvers even at lower speeds. Will be nice to see how their AFM's come out though, I'm expecting more rapid pitch movements will be possible, enabling the pilot to be able to do the Cobra maneuver :)

 

The F-15 is not disadvantaged when it comes to lifting body design. It just leans more to supersonic performance overall. The F-15 as it is in DCS is good at practically all speeds. But it's a fighter, and a modern fighter will prefer going fast to going slow. The Su-27 AFM and the MiG-29 should it happen probably won't differ very much from the F-15 in overall feel.

[sIGPIC]http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk187/Exorcet/F-15singaturebaseACOmodifiedcomp-1.jpg[/sIGPIC]

Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files

Link to comment
Share on other sites

first, your JS/Thr curves do make a difference ---- i had kept mine at all zeros - no bueno

 

and then, a good stick-and-rudder guy advised me to separate pitch and roll - it made an enormous difference for me ------ roll - center the stick - then pull..

 

try it

i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The F-15 is not disadvantaged when it comes to lifting body design. It just leans more to supersonic performance overall. The F-15 as it is in DCS is good at practically all speeds. But it's a fighter, and a modern fighter will prefer going fast to going slow. The Su-27 AFM and the MiG-29 should it happen probably won't differ very much from the F-15 in overall feel.

 

Whilst the F-15 certainly generates body lift it's pretty obvious that the F-15's design isn't as well optimized for body lift as that of the Su-27, the Sukhoi making use of a complete blended wing design. In conjunction with the LE flaps this makes the Su27 capable of much tighter & higher alpha maneuvers than the F-15, something we should see with the AFMs as well, as I'm sure we will.


Edited by Hummingbird
Link to comment
Share on other sites

F-15C performs the way it should in real life.

 

Its Corner Speed is about M=0,72. So if you keep your airspeed on or above that, she will handle perfectly.

 

Keep in mind that it was built as an interceptor. Slow turning dogfight isn't what she feel quite comfortable with. Su-27 or MiG-29 will easily outmaneuver her, so don't even try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To me even with clean configuration and bingo fuel F-15 is still sluggish under 350kts with afterburner on. It really doesn't feel like a fighter with well over 1.0 thrust/weight ratio.

 

Maybe you shouldn't expect such high twr at such slow speed? Wings have a performance limit.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

F-15C performs the way it should in real life.

 

Its Corner Speed is about M=0,72. So if you keep your airspeed on or above that, she will handle perfectly.

 

Keep in mind that it was built as an interceptor. Slow turning dogfight isn't what she feel quite comfortable with.

 

Actually corner is around M0.9-.95.

 

No it wasn't built as an interceptor. It is an air superiority fighter. Interceptor class is something like the MiG-31 for instance.

 

Su-27 or MiG-29 will easily outmaneuver her, so don't even try.

 

:megalol:

 

no

 

I'd love to invite some of these ppl who pretend the F-15 is an airbus to fight someone who both GG and I know. :D


Edited by <Blaze>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the Eagle had leading edge slats and flaps usable for turning it'd do just as well if not better than the flanker at low speeds.

 

Not even close. Even without LE devices the Flanker's blended wing lifting body design produces a lot more lift than the Eagle's conventional winged fuselage design, there's absolutely no doubt about it. With without LE devices the Flanker would outmaneuver the Eagle at low speeds without trouble.

 

Rightfully whoever designed the plane wasn't bothered with any of this because low speed dogfighting is an express ticket to getting killed.

 

Incorrect once again, there's a reason pretty much every fighter since features such devices, incl. the F-16, F-18, F-22, Su-27, Rafale, Gripen, Eurofighter, PAK FA etc..

 

In short all the evidence is against you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How come the flanker has the same operational AoA as the Eagle?

 

If its lift is so great, how come it can't outclimb the eagle?

 

Of it can outmaneuver the eagle without trouble without LE devices, why does it have them? They add weight, complexity and one more thing to maintain.

 

Not even close. Even without LE devices the Flanker's blended wing lifting body design produces a lot more lift than the Eagle's conventional winged fuselage design, there's absolutely no doubt about it. With without LE devices the Flanker would outmaneuver the Eagle at low speeds without trouble.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...