hitman Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I believe that the game should be copywrite protected and so far it has worked, but heres an idea for a compromise, I think its a good idea for the community and it wouldnt do harm to ED or Starforce either. REMEMBER this is just an idea. People who purchase this game require to activate it online at which point you are allowed to download an individual and unidentical no-cd patch(work with me here im new at this, this can work as payware) and those who dont activate it to continue using starforce until registered. I havent even purchased flaming cliffs yet not because of starforce but just because I havent had a chance to yet and I would like to do it when black shark comes out. But I do believe that the community and ED can make a compromise. Any other good ideas are appreciated. Its not likely we are going to get away from the starforce protection, so were gonna have to work with it anyways. :icon_kidr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 but how would you bind the no-cd exe file to this particular machine...and not have it hacked so it couldn't be shared thru the warez boards? Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Im thinkin perhaps softcoded into the .exe...Im not a progger but im sure it can be done. Not binded to a specific machine but specific cd...I would have to believe a similar concept can be done likewise. There are programmers here that may know better how to acheive this than I can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lixma 06 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Im thinkin perhaps softcoded into the .exe...Im not a progger but im sure it can be done. Not binded to a specific machine but specific cd...I would have to believe a similar concept can be done likewise. There are programmers here that may know better how to acheive this than I can... Binding to a 'specific CD' would require every CD to be unique (if i'm understanding you correctly). The cost involved for manufacture would be stratospheric for ED and us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I agree.. there must be a better way than what is being used now... (if starforce is the light... consider me a sith lord) BUT>>>> I'm like 95% sure it can't be done easily tho.....and SF may be the only viable solution for businesses to protect their products... Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeetleJuice Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 FC only checks for the disc once a week. So why should the devs waste their precious time for a no-cd "patch"? It doesnt change the fact how StarForce works -> the StarForce drivers have to be running in the background, no matter if there is a CD in the drive or not. Edit: This applies to the CD version, don't know how the web version actually works. Buy the web version and you don't have to put a cd in your drive at all, SF is still running in the background. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 Well like I said it should be open to suggestions. im referring to ppl who have paid for black shark to pay for a program that deletes starforce alltogether off the machine...softcoded to the specific .exe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 REMEMBER >>>>> Alfa asked us not to post anti / inflammitory Starforce issues.. lets abide by the forums rules.... Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingKid Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 One viable alternative might be to use a hardware dongle, like Steel Beasts uses. The problem with this approach is that the dongle costs (I was told) about $40 US, on top of the price of the game. However once you've bought it, you can download and store decryption codes from multiple games (e.g. Steel Beasts) into the same dongle. An interesting poll might ask how many users would prefer to pay a one-time $40 extra for a "StarForce-free" version of the software, that comes with a hardware dongle instead. versus buying the "StarForce version" and saving $40. -SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 One viable alternative might be to use a hardware dongle, like Steel Beasts uses. The problem with this approach is that the dongle costs (I was told) about $40 US, on top of the price of the game. However once you've bought it, you can download and store decryption codes from multiple games (e.g. Steel Beasts) into the same dongle. An interesting poll might ask how many users would prefer to pay a one-time $40 extra for a "StarForce-free" version of the software, that comes with a hardware dongle instead. versus buying the "StarForce version" and saving $40. -SK Well that to me does sound like a good idea to me swing...I know I would, considering all the issues ppl are bringing to the table...it may sound like a starforce bash but you have to admit not everyone can ignore the issue surrounding starforce protection, and if indeed it is true, then I would pay the 40 bucks as added insurance...providing that this works with follow up versions of the same game that I am using. No I do not intend on bashing Starforce in any way shape or form...I am just trying to suggest alternative ways to work together instead of bashing or boycotting a good product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lixma 06 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 One viable alternative might be to use a hardware dongle, like Steel Beasts uses. The problem with this approach is that the dongle costs (I was told) about $40 US, on top of the price of the game. However once you've bought it, you can download and store decryption codes from multiple games (e.g. Steel Beasts) into the same dongle. An interesting poll might ask how many users would prefer to pay a one-time $40 extra for a "StarForce-free" version of the software, that comes with a hardware dongle instead. versus buying the "StarForce version" and saving $40. -SK The dongle route sounds good. If it caught on I suppose individual companies could release dongles that worked for all their products...ie. an UBI dongle, EA dongle, Activision dongle...etc...etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I thought about this too.. but it would be daunting to dangle just one dongle for all publishers to dash about.... Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaelu Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Lixma 06 , what if you lose the dongle? Or dongles? My FC dont ask for nothing from me... I have the web download. So this is actualy a good starting point. Maybe people should start carring less of the coloured box and more to the developer that kinda lose some money to the Publisher. I have a better ideea... Why ED is not using their game to produce some nice videos (trailers) and publish them to the Game News Sites? We see on those sites all kinds of devupdates that are very poor quality but with big publishers names on the background. Why not bring some light on the game you are about to release? This way we will have something better to do also :p . [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I5 4670k, 32GB, GTX 1070, Thrustmaster TFRP, G940 Throttle extremely modded with Bodnar 0836X and Bu0836A, Warthog Joystick with F-18 grip, Oculus Rift S - Almost all is made from gifts from friends, the most expensive parts at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwingKid Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I thought about this too.. but it would be daunting to dangle just one dongle for all publishers to dash about.... AFAIK the dongle is not publisher-specific, it's just a data storage device that can contain multiple decryption keys. The one Steel Beasts uses is called "CodeMeter" by Wibu: http://wibu.com/start.php?lang=en -SK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lixma 06 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Lixma 06 , what if you lose the dongle? Or dongles? What if you lose/break the CD ? Same deal I suppose. And I don't want to go down the Steam/downloading games route either, i'd rather have a hard copy on my shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflagg Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 AFAIK the dongle is not publisher-specific, it's just a data storage device that can contain multiple decryption keys. The one Steel Beasts uses is called "CodeMeter" by Wibu: http://wibu.com/start.php?lang=en -SK One of the plants for my company is a metal fabrication plant. The dongles we use have a serial numbers encoded in them... then after we install the programming software .... we must incorporate a license file into the dongle (license file is from the vendor) Both of these together allows the dongle to be run only on a specific version of the software - reguardless of which machine the software is installed to...(it won't run with out the dongle) ...... and it wouldn't have the drawbacks of other DRM solutions. The only bitch I can see is the administrative maintenance of which dongle get which license file. (I'm thinking automated SQL). The question is will the costs be lower that lets say a third party software solution? (starforce, safedisk, secure rom...etc..) Thanks, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyHill Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 How difficult would it be to crack a dongle system? How difficult would it be to code a USB driver thingy that emulates a dongle when the game checks for it? If many games rely on a similiar dongle system there will be lots of demand for a crack and certain people are going to try real hard to do it. Games like Lock on and Steel Beasts are relatively safe, since they're not that popular and crackers won't bother. I don't know if there's a crack for Lock on, but for some StarForce games you can already get no-CD cracks. A no-CD patch can be made individual if it uses hardware data gathered during the registration and refuses to function on another setup. ________________________________________________________ Lock on MUST have toe-brake functionality with differential braking! My blog full of incoherent ramblings on random subjects: https://anttiilomaki.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobolopez220 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Not very difficult, dongles are still not going to stop determined pirates. I remember when 3D software like 3D Studio Max (costing several thousand more dollars than Lock on !!) had a hardware dongle which would cause constant problems, dongles would stop working and have to be replaced in which time the software could not be used and in addition to all of this you did have dongle software emulators created by pirates that still allowed the program to be widely copied and distributed. Lobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kula66 Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 One viable alternative might be to use a hardware dongle, like Steel Beasts uses. The problem with this approach is that the dongle costs (I was told) about $40 US, on top of the price of the game. However once you've bought it, you can download and store decryption codes from multiple games (e.g. Steel Beasts) into the same dongle. An interesting poll might ask how many users would prefer to pay a one-time $40 extra for a "StarForce-free" version of the software, that comes with a hardware dongle instead. versus buying the "StarForce version" and saving $40. -SK Now I use an app thats got a dongle (a forensic analysis app) ... and those dongle drivers ... they run at ring 0, system level and do all sorts of horrible things to my machine!! Always crashing, saying the dongles been removed when it hasn't ... god damn!!! And I swear, the other day, they allowed Lucifer himself onto my harddisk!!! Lets be honets, no solution is going to please us and ED 100% ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeetleJuice Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Great, instead of putting a CD in your drive you attach a usb stick, do I miss the logic in here? If you make a hardware change you have to purchase another 40$ dongle? Useless discussion imho since Alfa already stated BS will include StarForce no matter how much we rant. I don't like SF either but so far my puter didn't explode ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted March 23, 2006 Author Share Posted March 23, 2006 I merely suggested (at first) a pay-to-remove or deactivate starforce program after registration...I KNOW were not getting rid of starforce...I am merely suggesting that can benefit both customer and consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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