Aeons 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 (已编辑) Hi, Just wondering why this mig-21bis radar was designed to be cooled by alcohol. Wouldn't it be better to use some sought of radiator/ram air cooling system etc? 20 something minutes of on time kinda hurts, saying that the fuel range hurts also 本帖最后于2014年10月15日，由Aeons编辑 typo
Mobius_cz 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 I really don't know the real answer. As technician i think alcohol cooler doesn't need a lot o space and alcohol is effective enough. An other reason is maybe lack of knowledge on how to make an other cooling system which is small enough, not heavy and maybe not super expensive. [sIGPIC]http://dcs-uvp.cz/images/userbars/uvp_bars_mic.gif[/sIGPIC]
Boris 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 Because Russia, that's why. PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update
adese 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 If I had to guess: - It's cheap. - Easy to manufacture. - Easily transported and readily available (even in remote locations). - Won't freeze in subzero conditions. - The coolant leaves behind virtually no residue or byproduct that needs to be dealt with. Given the sheer number of MiG's being produced and punched out as quickly as possible, I'm sure economics, speed, and efficiency were of primary concern.
Aeons 发布于2014年10月15日 楼主 发布于2014年10月15日 That's not a search radar, so it's supposed to be operated only for target acquisition. 20 min is more than enough for the job. ok so searching for active hostiles always comes from ground radar or airborne radar (not mig21bis). So patrolling is pretty useless unless its visual or from mission control so to speak.
Aeons 发布于2014年10月15日 楼主 发布于2014年10月15日 If I had to guess: - It's cheap. - Easy to manufacture. - Easily transported and readily available (even in remote locations). - Won't freeze in subzero conditions. - The coolant leaves behind virtually no residue or byproduct that needs to be dealt with. Given the sheer number of MiG's being produced and punched out as quickly as possible, I'm sure economics, speed, and efficiency were of primary concern. what about the nations that still use the mig-21bis. im guessing the radar systems have all been updated to something more modern?
159th_Viper 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 im guessing the radar systems have all been updated to something more modern? Correct. The Indian Bisons are running the Phazotron Kopyo airborne radar. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
adese 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 what about the nations that still use the mig-21bis. im guessing the radar systems have all been updated to something more modern? I know IAF (India) put out the MiG-21 Bison which has a much more modern and capable radar. From: here "Equipped with the Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) airborne radar, which is capable of simultaneously tracking 8 targets and engaging 2 of them with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles, such as the Vympel R-27. The radar also enable the fighter to deploy active radar homing air-to-air missiles such as the Vympel R-77 when an additional channel is incorporated." The Bison is actually an upgrade package standardized for the MiG-21Bis. They are set to serve until 2025.
fjacobsen 发布于2014年10月15日 发布于2014年10月15日 The F/A-18 also uses a liquid radar cooling system. So I don´t think it has been so uncommon. FinnJ | i7-10700K 3.8-5.1Ghz | 64GB RAM | RTX 4070 12GB | 1x1TB M.2. NVMe SSD | 1x2TB M.2. NVMe SSD | 2x2TB SATA SSD | 1x2TB HDD 7200 RPM | Win10 Home 64bit | Meta Quest 3 |
Aeons 发布于2014年10月15日 楼主 发布于2014年10月15日 The F/A-18 also uses a liquid radar cooling system. So I don´t think it has been so uncommon. FinnJ yes true but this is a closed system and does not run out after 20-30mins of use. its also used to transfer heat to the fuel system etc.
anlq 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 In VietNam we're still using a large number of MiG-21 bis (about 100+ still in service). Sometimes technicians use these as radar cooling liquid. works like charm. j/kj/kj/kj/k :pilotfly:
Eihort 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 I can only speculate as to the reasons why. Probably because such a system was small, and easy to maintain. Just about anywhere can get their hands on it. I read the memoirs of the MiG-25 pilot that defected to Japan and he recounted that the MiG-25's radar as well used the same liquid, and indeed, the crews would drink the stuff. Of course, if you're using coolant and no fuel, that looks suspicious. So they'd take the fuel and dump it and doctor the logs to show flying time that never took place so when they placed another order for more coolant, and the matching fuel, Supply wouldn't ask questions.
Gascan39 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 That was a good read....forget his name. I remember when that happened, 1976 I think
_Randolph93 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 Seriously when I first heard about this alcohol radar cooling thing I thought it's just some kind of joke because its soviet/russian origin. But then again why not use ram air in higher altitudes, I mean its pretty cold up there.(Engineers would know better than me though) .
Boris 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 Great, now I'm hungry... PC Specs / Hardware: MSI z370 Gaming Plus Mainboard, Intel 8700k @ 5GHz, MSI Sea Hawk 2080 Ti @ 2100MHz, 32GB 3200 MHz DDR4 RAM Displays: Philips BDM4065UC 60Hz 4K UHD Screen, Pimax 8KX Controllers / Peripherals: VPC MongoosT-50, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, modded MS FFB2/CH Combatstick, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Gametrix JetSeat OS: Windows 10 Home Creator's Update
CookPassBabtridge 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 May or may not be relevant to the migs, but found this article on alcohol as a refrigerant: http://www.refrigtech.com/Knowledge_Center/knowledge_kiss.html I am assuming the mig would have some kind of heat exchange loop similar to a refrigeration cycle, so perhaps the migs would have suffered from the same thing. I also read reports of engineers drinking it, for real. However its not actually "drinking" alcohol, so... death. There are better refrigerants and coolants out there now. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I LIKE TO PLAY PRODIGAL WOMBAT STIMULATOR
NeilWillis 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 Whether there is any truth in this or not I cannot say, but we were very aware in my BAOR days that Russian soldiers were reputed to remove antifreeze from their vehicle radiators, filtering it, and then drinking it for the alcohol content. Another very dubious, highly dangerous practice, and one I would hope was just propaganda and far from reality. All the Russian military men I have met are highly professional, highly skilled, and highly motivated.
roob 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 Hi, Just wondering why this mig-21bis radar was designed to be cooled by alcohol. Wouldn't it be better to use some sought of radiator/ram air cooling system etc? 20 something minutes of on time kinda hurts, saying that the fuel range hurts also I'm guessing, and like many others have already pointed out, the system could be made small. Engineers have pretty much always been troubled by the limited amount of space to hold each and every system in a fighter jet. Using air will impact performance. It requires piping (which again occupy space and adds to weight) and it would need to steal air from the engine, which could otherwise be used for more thrust. Engines back when the MiG-21 was still relatively new and shiny wasn't very efficient on the "air" part (and still aren't, since engines for fighters are generally developed with power in mind). My DCS stream [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Past broadcasts, Highlights Currently too much to do... But watch and (maybe) learn something :)
effte 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 Air cooling won't cut it for a radar. You'd have to have a nose and a half full of baffles. Especially true for ram air cooling at altitude, where the air is significantly less dense. I assume the alcohol to be used for evaporative cooling - true of false? ----- Introduction to UTM/MGRS - Trying to get your head around what trim is, how it works and how to use it? - DCS helos vs the real world.
Flamin_Squirrel 发布于2014年10月16日 发布于2014年10月16日 I assume the alcohol to be used for evaporative cooling - true of false? Safe assumption I'd say. Especially at high altitude, (low pressure) it wouldn't take much to boil it off anyways.
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