DCS Modules life cycle and campaigns

[Ralphk]

Hey Folks,

 

except for the blackshark which received a 2nd paid version, and by monitoring the business direction of DCS by expanding their portfolio of modules rather than releasing second versions of their modules... it seems obvious that the current modules (and I own 90% of them) are here to stay for a long time, which will make playing those modules redundant unless they receive attention from time to time by introducing new Campaign missions... they could be paid campaigns (but definitely high end ones) or they could serve as a promotion to keep the users interested and getting back to the module. Having new planes is good, but too much effort was put on the old modules and the developers should capitalize on this effort to exploit it to the max. :geek:

[Flagrum]

While there are plenty of - comunity made - missions available for all sorts of aircraft, I agree, it would be nice if some "large® scale" missions/campaigns would be available from time to time. But I don't really see this as a problem - maybe because after a few years I still have to get to the point where I "played everything out of a module" so to say. Especially the variety of available modules (lately and in future) is something I appreciate a lot. At times, I do feel tired/bored/burned out flying the same aircraft all the time. But not a new campaign is what helps me then, but rather just doing something entirely different ... aircraft wise.

[McBlemmen]

I honestly am not sure if i should even say this , since it has been discussed ALOT in the past , but i'd just prefer ED to stop making aircraft specific missions and campaigns and make a dynamic campaign engine instead

[BIGNEWY]

Other than testing campaigns and missions, I do all of my flying in multiplayer, I think that is what keeps me fresh as every scenario online could be played out differently each time depending on many different factors.

 

I have my favourite aircraft, and when possible I try to fly them more, but change constantly depending on a scenario or task in a multiplayer mission.

 

Sure I understand multiplayer is not for everyone, If you are looking for a different challenge in single player have you considered using the " generate mission " in the editor. You could generate a different mission every time you fly.

[Ralphk]

Generated missions won't cut it for me... I need well scripted missions with events and voices... you know it might even push me to create a campaign...

[BIGNEWY]

you know it might even push me to create a campaign...

 

:thumbup:

 

looking forward to seeing them ;)

[EchoMasterMind]

Isn't the problem with scripted missions that they break every patch since DCS changes so much?

 

Example:

One of the A-10C mission require you to use the radio feature to signal the SEAD operation to commence. If ED changed the radio feature that mission would probably not work anymore without the mission being tweaked to accomodate the changes.

 

This wouldn't be a problem if DCS was a static product, but since it's a work in progress, and most likely will be for a forseeable future, that won't change. Well, unless they settle on a 'finished' core and only continue to maintain it.

 

This might go for a dynamic campaign as well of course.

[Maverick-X]

Generated missions won't cut it for me... I need well scripted missions with events and voices... you know it might even push me to create a campaign...

 

I started something similar, but lack in time and at some point being tired of looking for bugs + being not good with lua doesn't make good progress...

 

But I'd really like to have something like that. Ideally for 2-4 Aircraft. There are some very good missions like that out there already, but gimme more! ^^

[MacEwan]

I honestly am not sure if i should even say this , since it has been discussed ALOT in the past , but i'd just prefer ED to stop making aircraft specific missions and campaigns and make a dynamic campaign engine instead

 

This would yield the best outcome.

[Shark-Bait]

Generated missions won't cut it for me... I need well scripted missions with events and voices... you know it might even push me to create a campaign...

If the system was easier to use. At the moment it is rather complex to generate missions. I don't know LUA.. but I'd really like to be able to create good quality missions/campaigns.

 

If the system made it easier to use, an IDE style /or something for the mission editor to incorporate LUA quick-use scripts. There'd be a lot more user-created missions and... If most people used 'set options' provided with a selection of 'ready-made' scripts (which the user can tweak the variables of) ... then each upgrade could make sure those 'ready-made' functions are compatible.

 

ED could have a robot automatically check the function calls don't return an error with each update/release.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

___

ps:

 

I know something like this is already half-implemented... But it could be improved on IMHO. It's nearly impossible to use complex scripting options unless you know LUA. :-\

Edited November 3, 2014 by Shark-Bait
ps:

[AtaliaA1]

I honestly am not sure if i should even say this , since it has been discussed ALOT in the past , but i'd just prefer ED to stop making aircraft specific missions and campaigns and make a dynamic campaign engine instead

 

Isn't that what CA. is all about?

[Archer7]

I think ED should hire a ton of new guys to create campaigns, missions and training missions for all currently available aircraft because the availability is quite sparse. We need manuals too.

Overall it would be great if ED could upgrade the ATCs, ground crew, ground units and more general things like that too now that they're upgrading to DCS 2.0 and not only upgrade graphics.

 

The No. 1 issue with DCS is how uninteresting the bundled missions often are and the second issue is everything DCS doesn't do. Everything DCS does do though, from runway to runway, is excellent.

Everything on the ground except for start-up/shut-down is quite meh.

[Grimes]

I think there is a lot of potential to explore new campaigns and missions for existing aircraft coupled with other new content that gets released. For instance a new map may provide for new mission possibilities for different aircraft. I'd think whenever the DCS WW2 stuff gets more fleshed out with a map that the available WW2 birds will get combat campaigns. Another part of the same idea is to craft a single campaign around multiple aircraft that compliment one another. I've been experimenting with and thinking about a co-op Mi-8 and Ka-50 campaign that could be played in single player if one chooses. The problem is such an idea is quite difficult to design around and implement.

[Blooze]

We can all remember that not long ago it required extensive knowledge of html language to build a website. Now there are numerous software programs that allow anyone to build a professional website in just minutes. Imagine if the ME could evolve to a similar level allowing anyone to build missions and/or campaigns by selecting preset components of mission scenarios from a list. Some based on actual historical conflicts and others based on the hypothetical. Grimes, you would be just the type that could probably pull it off.

[Rongor]

Isn't that what CA. is all about?

No. CA lets you steer units on the F10 map or even hop in some vehicles and enjoy ground view, including a JTAC function. That is in short really all you can do with CA.

CA doesn't change the technique of mission or campaign building at all. Missions and campaigns are as static as you script them.

 

What DCS really needs are dynamic campaigns like provided by Falcon4 and the F4 derivates.

 

Also I agree to those of you, who dislike the current mission editor. The ME is anything else but intuitive. So many stuff doesn't just work as expected. The GUI of the ME is an incomplete mask for people like me who don't have enough time to learn LUA. So creation of good missions is up to those who are able to script in LUA.

 

Dynamic campaigns.

Intuitive capable mission editor.

We need these.

[vicx]

Well you know I'm coming at this from another angle. The LUA interface is a good thing. We should have more of a good thing. DCS doesn't have to be this monolithic software that does everything. It just needs a LUA interface that lets you do more and more things outside of the window frame.

 

You want a better mission map? How about one that uses Google Maps/Earth and lets you use all the neat features in that platform and syncs with DCS. Driving a tank through Vegas you will want to take the shortest route.

 

You want to model a missile guidance system in Matlab(or opensource clone) and see the system working inside DCS - Perhaps a LUA interface. Make sure you patent your new model when it works better than A120C.

 

You want to run a mission or campaigns that have a bit of Arma and bit of DCS in it at the same time. Perhaps a LUA interface.

 

Yes all those examples are pie in the sky but it would be cool pie.

[tintifaxl]

I for one am a guy who pays for good campaings willingly. I bought many campaign packs for IL2:1946, Cliffs of Dover and of course the Maple Flag campaigns for the DCS:A-10C.

 

So all you campaign makers out there do something along the lines of the Mi-8 campaign and earn some money :)

[Blooze]

I have seen some talented mission designers claim that it takes as long as 40+ hours to create a high quality multiplayer mission. At the current US minimum wage rate that would pay about $290 US dollars. Even if a customer was willing to pay the price it would hardly be worth the effort for the mission designer. What I think would be a more viable solution is if a third party developer was able to create a user friendly mission editor enabling dummies like me to create the same high quality missions easily, and sell it for under $50.00. I would gladly pay for that and IMO it would be an easy sale for the majority of the community.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Blooze

[redterror]

I have seen some talented mission designers claim that it takes as long as 40+ hours to create a high quality multiplayer mission. At the current US minimum wage rate that would pay about $290 US dollars. Even if a customer was willing to pay the price it would hardly be worth the effort for the mission designer.

 

That implies a customer commissioning a campaign for their own private use, thus they must cover the full cost. The thing about digital assets is that the first copy costs a lot, but all the rest cost nothing. So say it was priced at $20 for the campaign. Sell 15 copies and there's $300. Sell 150 and it's $3000.

 

It may still not be worth a designer/developer's time, but its a question of how large the market really is. ED could presumably advise anyone who was serious.

 

All this said, your larger point that it takes real effort/time to make a campaign is completely valid.

[Blooze]

That implies a customer commissioning a campaign for their own private use, thus they must cover the full cost. The thing about digital assets is that the first copy costs a lot, but all the rest cost nothing. So say it was priced at $20 for the campaign. Sell 15 copies and there's $300. Sell 150 and it's $3000.

 

It may still not be worth a designer/developer's time, but its a question of how large the market really is. ED could presumably advise anyone who was serious.

 

All this said, your larger point that it takes real effort/time to make a campaign is completely valid.

 

but its a question of how large the market really is. One of the unfortunate consequences of introducing numerous modules is that it has fragmented the community creating segments for each module making the market smaller for each. Like cutting a pie into smaller and smaller pieces. Therein lies the need for a user friendly mission editor that could be used to create missions for any module or combination.

[Ralphk]

I believe there should be a department at DCS for mission and campaign design... this department will be always active creating missions and maintaining client interest irrespective of the new modules developments.

[WindWpn]

Back in the "old DCS days" didn't ED run contests for creating the campaigns? The format was the winning/top campaign designers were awarded prizes.

 

+1 for paid campaigns. The blackshark VG paid campaign was awesome back when it was released!

 

All in all, I have had DCS for quite some time, but do not fly it much these days simply due to the lack of missions/campaigns from the community. Back in the old DCS days it seemed like campaign xmas near weekly with new fun offerings released.

[ebabil]

I can say Belsimtek is awesome on making campaigns beside making addons. I played UH-1 campaign and just started Mi-8 campaign. You feel yourself part of the mission. very very succesfull.

I can buy whatever they make as campaign

[Ralphk]

I agree regarding belsimtek