FW190 Fuel Management

[Tracer1]

Hey Guys,

 

In the effort to fly this thing as realistic as possible I was hoping someone could tell me how to use the fuel system in the fw190. I tried reading from the manual but page 93 makes no sense to me as I think it was written by a non English person or I'm losing it. Either way I feel lost at this point.

 

Can someone rewrite the paragraph more clearly?

 

And regarding the fuel selector handle in cockpit:

 

What does the auf (on setting do) . Does it draw from both tanks in the right order?

 

Not. This is the one with a red background. Have no idea.

 

Vorderer zu - I assume this means you want to turn off the front pump and use the rear tank?

 

Hinterer zu - you want to turn off rear pump and use front tank?

 

Not sure what settings to use so I currently fly with it set to auf.

 

Thanks for any help on my next hurdle with this aircraft. I'm enjoying it so far.

 

Tracer

[saburo_cz]

Hello,

with fuel selector lever You only control how or if You will draw fuel from tanks.

 

it has 4 possition:

"Auf" ... engine is supply from both fuel tanks (or three if auxiliary tank is carried)

“Vorderer Behälter zu” ... engine is supply only from rear tank (and from auxiliary if it is)

“Hinterer Behälter zu” ... engine is supply only from forward tank

"zu" ... means close, simply fuel tanks are closed

 

Fuel pumps are switched by C/Bs placed on right console (E13, E14, E85)

Edited January 4, 2015 by saburo_cz

[313_Nevo]

:)

[Crumpp]

It is designed to reduce pilot work load such that he does not have to manage fuel tanks in flight.

 

Leave it in "Auf" and it will automatically cycle from the rear tank to the front. If a drop tank or auxiliary tank is installed, it will empty the drop tank/auxiliary tank automatically.

 

The auxiliary tank/drop tank will feed the rear tank and fuel will be drawn from the rear tank until it the auxiliary/drop tank is empty.

[Tracer1]

that's perfect, thanks for the help guys. For some reason I couldn,t get that from the manual. I read that para and was left thinking what the hell. good to know about the fuel pumps controlled by the circuit breakers, I've just been leaving them on.

[Crumpp]

Leave the circuit breakers in for the fuel pumps.

 

The pumps are controlled automatically coming on and off as required based on fuel pressure requirements.

 

It is not like the electric boost pumps found in most low wing aircraft that require pilot intervention.

[SkyCaptain109]

You don't have to worry about fuel management. Keep the fuel cock in the "Auf" position and the electric fuel pumps "On". The aircraft takes care of it. Just switch the corresponding electric fuel pumps of when a tank is empty to avoid them running dry. Of course when no drop tank is installed you don't need the drop tank electric fuel pump so leave that in the "OFF" position.

 

I think the DCS manual is rather confusing

Edited December 28, 2014 by SkyCaptain109

[DrJet]

I'm not sure if my question is already answered but it seems that full tank is drained within 30 minutes of flight. I only fly in off-line though. Is it normal?

[fastfreddie]

Run at a lower rpm (2300) when cruising and I'm not sure if they mess with the fuel percentage in offline missions.

[Crumpp]

What FastFreddie said!!!

 

World War II fighters consume fuel about 3 times faster at emergency settings and twice as fast at maximum continuous.

 

Also, remember the Focke Wulf has one gauge for two tanks. Make sure you are looking at the correct tank and have the fuel gauge switch on the correct tank.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

You also want to use up the rear most tanks first. so after takeoff keep all CB pumps on but close the front tank and start using the rear most tank first to increase maneouverability as the tank goes down and hopefully before you engage the enemy lol,

[HugePanic]

You also want to use up the rear most tanks first. so after takeoff keep all CB pumps on but close the front tank and start using the rear most tank first to increase maneouverability as the tank goes down and hopefully before you engage the enemy lol,

 

Can you explain that?

 

 

First:

If i drain the rear tank first, then the COG will move forward. --> you increase elevator loading --> that is usually not benificial for the agility

 

Second:

why not use the fuel selector and close the rear tank? isn't that what is meant to be? In the end the circuit breaker is a circuit breaker, and not secondary flight control...

 

 

thank you

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Actually moving fuel forward would better the COG and improve roll rate and effective response on control surfaces. Ive noticed a significantly better turn rate with lower fuel because the aircraft becomes more `twitchy and responsive to my inputs. Both tanks can be closed by the fuel selector lever but the fuel will still be drawn because you haven`t turned the pumps off on the CB panel. Essentially the CB panel that has no cover controls in order:

 

External Lights

(Vorn) Front fuel Tank Pump

(Hinten) Rear Tank Pump

Drop Tank Pump

MW-50 Pump

 

A thing to note for the Dora is when you are using a drop tank, the drop tank won`t actually start feeding the rear tank fuel until the rear tank is at 240 L from its 292L because of a valve system. So when you have a drop tank on turn all your fuel pump CB`s on and monitor your rear tank. Upon taking off move the fuel selector lever to front tank closed but keep the CB in because all tanks feed the front which actually feeds the engine. Watch the rear tank gauge till the tank reaches 240L then your good for another 300L. Once your rear tank drops below 240L you know your drop tank has been depleted so you can turn off the drop tank pump and jettison the tank. Keep the fuel selector on front off and keep watching your rear tank till the low fuel light is a solid red, once this occurs flip the selector lever to all tanks open and move your fuel indicator switch to your front tank. When that low warning light turns solid white then its time to GTFO and RTB. Eazie peazie lemon squeezie.

[n3cr1d]

Elmo I find your posts rather confusing. First you say that

 

You also want to use up the rear most tanks first. so after takeoff keep all CB pumps on but close the front tank and start using the rear most tank first to increase maneouverability as the tank goes down and hopefully before you engage the enemy lol,

 

So:

1.) Use your rear fuel tank first.

2.) After takeoff keep all CBs pushed in and

3.) close the front tank using the shutoff lever.

 

But then you state, that

 

...Both tanks can be closed by the fuel selector lever but the fuel will still be drawn because you haven`t turned the pumps off on the CB panel...

 

What's it going to be now in order to use fuel from the rear tank first? CB on or off? Is is enough to only use the fuel shutoff lever? I guess only a test will show. Speculating does not help in this case, since the maunal i poorly worded for that section :pilotfly:

 

edit: I just stumbled upon this thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=134169

Although the fuel system in the D9 might differ from that of the A series, the user observed a similar (buggy?) behavior.

Edited February 5, 2015 by n3cr1d

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Ok, lol it is a bit confusing but essentially the CB's turn on the pumps, but the selector lever chooses which tank the fuel is mainly drawn from. As far as i know, the tanks are fed from the rear or underbelly into the rear then into the from. The CB turns on the pump and that's what pumps the fuel, the selector places a stop on the amount of fuel. So what happens is that the front tank always draws fuel just at a shorter rate, on the FW you can stop fuel from the rear and drop/ Mw tank but the if you close the front it will still draw minimal fuel. Turning the pump on however will cut the fuel and possibly starve the engine of power. So in flight make surer you have all of your neccissary CBs pushed in but select front tank closed as to prevent a larger amount of fuel being used from that tank. Use up the rear fuel then switch to all tanks open. Only switch off your CBs when you're parked on the ground and your engine is off and cooled down. I know engine detonation and fuel flooding isn't implemented well but use it as a procedure because you never know if they'll implement it in the future and it's nice to start getting into the habit.

 

So CB turns on pumps

Selector lever controls the majority of fuel flow

[n3cr1d]

thanks for clarifying :)

[Viersbovsky]

The manual actually states to leave the tank-selector at "open" at all times and control usage by switching the pumps off: e.g. when using a drop tank, set selector to open, switch off front pump.

 

I actually set the selector to front closed and switch off the front pump, with no ill effect. I would really like one of the devs to chime in, I am somewhat confused. The description in the manual is quite contradictory.

[n3cr1d]

The manual actually states to leave the tank-selector at "open" at all times and control usage by switching the pumps off: e.g. when using a drop tank, set selector to open, switch off front pump.

 

I actually set the selector to front closed and switch off the front pump, with no ill effect. I would really like one of the devs to chime in, I am somewhat confused. The description in the manual is quite contradictory.

 

I agree. I couldn't find a complete manual for the real Dora online to determine how real WWII pilots would handle fuel management, but I did some testing just a few minutes ago. So here we go.

 

1.) When flying without a drop tank and 100% fuel (e.g. Cold Start, Instant Action from the Main Menu), setting the fuel shutoff lever to top most "Open" position and switching on the front and rear fuel pumps via the CBs, the Dora draws fuel from both tanks unequally. Flying at 3000rpm @ 5000m until the rear tank is empty leaves you with about 55%-60% in your front fuel tank.

2.) Flying at 3000rpm @ 5000m with the fuel shutoff lever set for "Front closed" seems to empty the rear tank first as suggested by the manual. Still, the plane draws some fuel from the front tank (less than one fith of the full quantity though), since the fuel pump is set to on.

 

I have not tested the fuel management with the CBs only, but I will do so shortly after I made this post.

The Manual's page 98 is an utter mess btw.... I quote (typos inculuded):

 

"In Flight:

 

• Fuel shutoff valve "Open" (Roger)
  
• Drawing of fuel is controlled by switching "On" and "Off of the fuel tank pumps. (Roger)
  
• Monitoring of fuel quantity by observing the selectable fuel tank indicator (roger)
  
  
• First empty the rear tank, with rear fuel pump switched off. (only when read lamp illuminates before the white lamp, isolate forward fuel tank with its fuel shutoff valve). Fuel quantity indicator on the rear fuel tank. (This is where is get lost. Does the plane really empty the rear fuel tank first, when I switch off the rear fuel pump?)
  
• When the white lamp illuminates, switch both fuel tanks to "On". Fuel shutoff valve reamins in position "Open". (The white lamp is modeled to display the fuel quantity in the front tank. I thought we were supposed to empty the rear tank first? So I guess the fuel warning lights have been switched. The white lamp should indicate an empty rear tank (tank switch warning), the red lamp should indicate low fuel for the front tank. Currently these seem to be implemented wrong!)
  
• Fuel quantity indicator to foward fuel tank. (Makes sense when the rear tank is empty)
  
• When red lamp illuminates , 90-100 liter reman in forward fuel tank, remaining available flight time approximately 10 to 15 minutes at Economy power setting (the lamp issue again :helpsmilie:. Now the red light indicates an almost empty front tank, but it doesn't ingame. Which Economy setting? I (2700rpm), II (2400rpm) or III (2100rpm)?)"
  

[Viersbovsky]

 

...

 

I have not tested the fuel management with the CBs only, but I will do so shortly after I made this post.

The Manual's page 98 is an utter mess btw.... I quote (typos inculuded):

 

Hmm, that seems to correlate somewhat with Elmo´s statements, namely the shutoff valves only limiting the flow from the tank. I can´t rightly say that leaving the pump switched on and working against a partially closed valve sounds like a good idea...

 

I am looking forward to your test results, I think I am just going to keep the valve and pump switched off until the rear tank is almost drained and then draw mainly from front. The warning lights are also unneccessary if one keeps looking at the indicators from time to time.

 

The picture of the fuel system in the Dora manual could use a rework. The Kurfürst manual has a simpler but way more comprehensible diagram.

 

Oh, on a side note I just remembered that the drop-tank pump seems to make a whirring sound when switched on with an empty drop-tank. This may help in getting rid of the bladder as soon as possible.

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Oh, on a side note I just remembered that the drop-tank pump seems to make a whirring sound when switched on with an empty drop-tank. This may help in getting rid of the bladder as soon as possible.

 

Feeding air into the tanks isn't recommended, once you notice the rear tank go below 240L with drop tank installed, turn off the drop tank pump and jettison the tank. The tutorial and manual say to turn all CB on, but alas tis not the case. Same for some reason they say to push in the C! CB........wth would you fly with lights on unless you're really ballsy.

[Viersbovsky]

Feeding air into the tanks isn't recommended, once you notice the rear tank go below 240L with drop tank installed, turn off the drop tank pump and jettison the tank. The tutorial and manual say to turn all CB on, but alas tis not the case. Same for some reason they say to push in the C! CB........wth would you fly with lights on unless you're really ballsy.

 

Yep, I know. It just seems easier to me to judge whether the tank is empty by the indicator going down AND a characteristic sound being heard than by going by indicator alone. As soon as you hear that sound, check indicator, get rid of the bladder and stop the pump.

[n3cr1d]

Ok my testing is done. Using only the CBs for fuel management doesn't do the trick either. You have to use both the shutoff valve lever and the CBs in order to use up the fuel in the rear tank first. I suggest the following procedure (but only a dev might clear up this part):

 

Before and during takeoff:

 

1.) Shutoff valve lever "Open".

2.) All necessary CBs pushed in.

3.) Takeoff and start your climb.

 

During flight:

 

1.) Shutoff valve lever to "front closed"

2.) CB for forward fuel pump set to "off".

3.) Fuel indicator set to "rear".

4.) Observe fuel being emptied from the rear tank first.

5.) Once the rear tank fuel warning light illuminates, put the shutoff valve lever to "Open" and push the CB for the forward fuel pump.

6.) Once the rear tank is completely empty, disable the rear fuel pump via the according CB.

 

Again I don't know if this is the correct way to handle things, but it is the only way I was able to use up the rear tank first. The fuel management might still be buggy though.

 

Be warned about a certain bug: once you start messing with your CBs during flight, I noticed that my speed indicator sometimes gets "stuck" and displays 0 km/h. The issue is also describes in the the following topic

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138601

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Ok my testing is done. Using only the CBs for fuel management doesn't do the trick either. You have to use both the shutoff valve lever and the CBs in order to use up the fuel in the rear tank first. I suggest the following procedure (but only a dev might clear up this part):

 

Before and during takeoff:

 

1.) Shutoff valve lever "Open".

2.) All necessary CBs pushed in.

3.) Takeoff and start your climb.

 

During flight:

 

1.) Shutoff valve lever to "front closed"

2.) CB for forward fuel pump set to "off".

3.) Fuel indicator set to "rear".

4.) Observe fuel being emptied from the rear tank first.

5.) Once the rear tank fuel warning light illuminates, put the shutoff valve lever to "Open" and push the CB for the forward fuel pump.

6.) Once the rear tank is completely empty, disable the rear fuel pump via the according CB.

 

Again I don't know if this is the correct way to handle things, but it is the only way I was able to use up the rear tank first. The fuel management might still be buggy though.

 

Be warned about a certain bug: once you start messing with your CBs during flight, I noticed that my speed indicator sometimes gets "stuck" and displays 0 km/h. The issue is also describes in the the following topic

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=138601

 

Thats exactly the procedure I use and from what I researched online is the proper way of running the FW

[Ala13_ManOWar]

Yesterday I performed some test myself because the weird text in handbook and after reading all this thread. Really it seems turning ON-OFF fuel pumps makes no difference, you only are able to manage fuel using fuel selector. Even I was able to empty rear fuel tank with selector in forward OFF and rear fuel pump also OFF, so only forward pump working but rear tank still is the one emptied. The opposite, fuel selector on both and turning ON/OFF fuel pumps makes no effect and still tanks are both emptied, but as forward is smaller aircraft gets an awkward feeling and CG.

 

So, you can left alone CB's ON for every fuel pump and just remember to select the rear fuel tank first and when red light is ON select both again. It makes a difference in handling and when rear fuel tank is empty you can "feel" the 190 more 190 than ever with a really nice roll rate like it's supposed to be :thumbup:. Also landing and general behaviour improves vastly, it's a really pleasant aircraft to fly like that.

 

S!