New to FC 3 - Su 27 issue

[jack4]

Hello, I am Jack

 

After spending years with FC, FC2 finally I've bought FC 3 and found strange issue with SU 27. Airplane is almost uncontrollable, requires constant trimming, in dogfight is stalls easy,also engine stalls. Any vertical maneuver ends in complete lost of control. Flat stalls are unrecoverable. Dog fight even with F4 are difficult to manage. Same issue are not beeping experienced with SU 33 although models should be similar. Is there any bug with SU27, or need to configure joystick ??? :helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie::helpsmilie:

Edited December 23, 2014 by jack4

[Boomer20]

Su-27 has a new flight model, you have to handle her with a alot more care than you use to.

Su-33 has the old simplified flight model hence why your not experiencing the same issues.

[chuck04]

That's pretty simple, as in combat you trim the aircraft so that it is neutral in his ballpark speed, near it's corner speed, in the 600/800 km/h, the plane stay straight when the stick is released in the center but the trim is so that there is no margin when you push the stick. So what happens it's that if your losing speed in the vertical for example then a slight push is indeed a big one compare to a configuration with your su27 trimmed at 300/400

So you must push very slightly and you should prefer to pull the stick instead, that is quick roll and pull instead of push.

To help you can reset trim CTRL+T

 

 

For engine stall, RTFM ! I did but forgot, from memory it's throttle to idle (plane recovered so that air is feeding approprietly the engine) and to 100 noafterburner or something like this, RTFM as i said :pilotfly:

Edited December 24, 2014 by chuck04

[jack4]

Hello,

 

Thank on you reply, I find it difficult to understand that SU27 requires so much input with regards to trimming should not control by FBW system and manual trimming used for fine corrections???

After spending many years flaying at IL2, Falcon 4 etc I am finding SU27 disappointing. :joystick::joystick::joystick::joystick:

[Zeke]

Jack4, have you edited your axis settings? Try using a steep curve of 30 or more to start off in the x and y axis. Without any editing I find the planes very difficult to handle.

[blackbelter]

The new PFM is awesome, isn't it? :D

 

You gotta learn how aircrafts are handled in real life, before you can operate the PFM correctly. I suggest you to look at discussions such as those in

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135471

Google whichever terminology that you are not familiar with.

[chuck04]

also, code one, semper viper is a really good read, it's on the f16 but general principle still apply, especially how to get out of a flat spin, it's like learning the swing...

 

 

let me check if i'm remembering correctly.

you must first cancel the rotation, to do so, you must stop the thrust because it further amplify the spin sometimes

second, you must roll the aircraft in the opposite direction of the spin rotation, for exemple if the aircraft spin clockwise (flat spin aircraft not inverted) roll port (left), the plane is then configured like an air brake against rotation (30-60° bank)

if it worked and there enough space left in the vertical, you still can get stucked in a 60° stable aoa, but there is an escape, that's were memory of the swing principle is usefull. The plane oscillate slightly in pitch. To amplify this movement you must act in the opposite direction when at the highest amplitude, that is pull the stick when the plane arrive at the max nose up and push the stick when at the min nose down, like a swing, when there's enough momentum you can bring the aircraft in a 0° aoa that is as you're falling to the ground full nose toward the ground !

I'm sure i'll be corrected severely if i'm wrong!

merry christmas!

Edited December 24, 2014 by chuck04

[jack4]

Hi Chuck,

 

In all of sims spin recovery procedure is same or similar but with SU27 Iam loosing complete control, it seams that airplane is not responding to inputs. For example 500kts and start loop, on 70% I will stall or spin and with same approach handling Mig or F15 will behave normally. Sometimes Su starts dipping tail first, altogether I am very disappointed with handling. Curves are set on 25-30, and still planes behaves strangely, there is little if any warning prior to stalling, one should expect to have some warning but in this case it is coming with out any warning and at high speeds (400kts).:pilotfly::pilotfly:

[Abburo]

Jack, it looks for me that you are not aware about the big changes produced and the quality of them. You were used to play SFM and now your brain and reflexes have to recalibrate for something more real as it is PFM.

 

I kindly recommend you read the terms here:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2039947

[FLANKERATOR]

Hi Jack,

 

Have you tried the F-15? It got a new advanced flight model as well.

I'm too finding the 27 pretty unstable, I think more tweaking is needed.

[Stuge]

I'm just happy about the su27 flight model because it is so challenging to learn. Took me hours of practice just to polish out crashing due to flight model :D

 

It's like taming a dragon. Now when it's tamed, it flies fantastic. Limiter off, gun shots while in cobra maneuver, i'm in heaven..

[Ragnarok]

Now when it's tamed, it flies fantastic. Limiter off, gun shots while in cobra maneuver, i'm in heaven..

It worries me :D

Edited December 25, 2014 by Ragnarok

[jack4]

For sure this model is challenging but how much real it is, for example reaching peak of the loop with speed of 250kt, and plane starts sliding and finally drops tail first with after burning running. Plane with thrust to weight ration more then one should be controllable and at list should rapidly point nose down after switching after burners off. With time I ma sure that I will get

accustomed to this model but question is why plane is responding as it is..

F15 is pleasure to flight and fight and there is no awkward responses as with SU27. More model tuning is required for sure.

[Ironhand]

...for example reaching peak of the loop with speed of 250kt, and plane starts sliding and finally drops tail first with after burning running...

Would you be willing to fly this profile and make it happen again? Then, save the track and upload it here? I'd be interested in seeing exactly what you're referring to.

 

Rich

[jack4]

Please check my track and loop after shooting down F15.

su27.trk

[Ironhand]

Please check my track and loop after shooting down F15.

Thanks. I'll check it at my earliest opportunity but that may not be until Tuesday.

 

EDIT: I lied. Was able to take a quick look at it. After coming over the top, you rolled upright and pushed forward on the stick in a way that forced a high negative AoA that flipped you. It was quickly recoverable but that's why it happened. I don't know if the actual aircraft is actually that unforgiving but...

 

It may have something to do with the way you were trimmed as well but I'll have to look into that later.

 

Rich

Edited December 28, 2014 by Ironhand

[Alkaline]

Inverted stall/spin is easy to recover from. Altitude is required though.

 

Once u get inverted, wiggle the plane, like, move ailerion full left, and when the plane wiggles to the left, move aileron to the right and keep doing like that, and the plane will stabilize when u get enough of momentum to roll the aircraft on the correct sida again.

 

P.S- Waggle, not wiggle, lol.. :p

[GrapeJam]

The question is: Should the plane behave like that? For a jet fighter that is legendary for it's low speed and poststall maneuverability, the in game SU 27 sure has some weird (and deadly) stall characteristics.

 

Also, I tried inverted flying and the engines cut out after 2 seconds, not sure if this is correct as WW2 propeller fighters could endure at least 10 seconds of inverted flight.

Edited December 30, 2014 by GrapeJam

[Azrayen]

Also, I tried inverted flying and the engines cut out after 2 seconds, not sure if this is correct as WW2 propeller fighters could endure at least 10 seconds of inverted flight.

This is correct, as shown by the (real plane) manual. Your WW2 propeller fighters didn't have post-combustion, did they?

Now try with dry thrust. ;)

[Stuge]

The question is: Should the plane behave like that? For a jet fighter that is legendary for it's low speed and poststall maneuverability, the in game SU 27 sure has some weird (and deadly) stall characteristics.

 

I think people mix up two things: performance and ease of flight.

 

The Su-27 performs beautifully at high angle of attack. It's just much more difficult to fly now, which obviously may upset some flanker pilots because they have to reprogram their flying significantly. And negative G is a big no-no, it must be avoided at all costs.

[wilsonov]

completely agree !

[Gloom Demon]

I am getting the same frustration as the TS in the instant action mission "jousting missiles" - the aircraft rolls to the left all the time. The outside view looks as if the plane's stores are loaded evenly - so this shouldn't be the case. The "Free Flight" mission works just fine.