aaron886 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 F1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavn Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Will certainly buy the F104 :thumbup: Remember some time agoo flying the F104 (FS9 /CaptainSim): at landing flaps down and 88% power (if I'm right....): was not that easy alltogether: very much fun!! :) Edited February 3, 2015 by wavn Best regards, Willem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzerd18 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 True but the F-5 also fought in Vietnam and unlike the F-104, it also fought in the Iran/Iraq war and even remains in active frontline service (IRIAF). The F-104 does fit at the bottom end of the plane set, but only barely. The F-5, F-4 and Mirage F.1 are all right smack in the middle of it and saw more combat in more places. As I said, I'd like an F-104 but I think at least one of those three other options should be given higher priority at this time. The F-5E would be fantastic, a certain buy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivoune Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The F-5E would be fantastic, a certain buy for me. :pilotfly: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stratos Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If I cannot get a F.1 I will get the F-5E, but not the F-104 sorry. I don't understand anything in russian except Davai Davai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanOscar Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'm out this week traveling. Next week news :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaanalma Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 F-104G and S (cb ci and asa) and TF version.... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] www.36stormovirtuale.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartuil Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 If no mirage F1 , I hope the f-104 will have a good cockpit with a good radar. Not something like the mig, if its a good model I buy no matter the price!! Is the F-104 more manoeuvrable than mig-21? i7 2600k -- Noctua NH-D14--Asrock Z75 Pro3--ASUS GTX970 Strix --16Go Ripjaws X 1333--Thermaltake Smart M650--CoolerMaster Silencio 652S--AOC E2752VQ-- Sandisk Extreme II 480GB--Saitek X-52 Pro --SAITEK PZ35 Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Hrothgar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It has a worse power to weight ratio and higher wing loading, so no, probably not. I don't think it will be a huge difference, but it certainly isn't going to be better. It also can't carry anything but sidewinders and the cannon for air to air. So regardless of how good or bad the radar is, it's going to be at a substantial disadvantage compared to the MiG-21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel_108 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Well the Starfighter does have AIM-7 Sparrow SARs and a Vulcan cannon with over 700 rounds, so I'm sure in the hands of the right pilot it can be quite a threat to mig-21s. Edit: The thrust to weight ratio is still very good, this thing even went 103.000 ft high. Edited February 5, 2015 by Manuel_108 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 That depends on the version. Early versions probably aren't a huge threat for the MiG-21bis, but a later version like the S certainly is. Everything newer than a G also has a much better radar than the MiG-21 IIRC. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Hrothgar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) As far as I can tell, the 104G couldn't carry Sparrows. The only ones that could were the Italian 104S's and they were fairly exotic. I don't think anyone but Italy had them and I don't think they ever saw combat. Given how rare that model is, I wouldn't support making it in preference to the standard G. I greatly prefer "normal" planes instead of prototypes and exotics. I know the exotics have their fans, but I suspect the majority of DCS users share my view on it. If it were added after the standard G I would be fine with it, but not before. And as said, I think the F-5E or Mirage F.1 would be a better overall choice than the 104G. Edit: I should point out the 104S deleted the cannon to make room for better radar and the missiles. Edited February 5, 2015 by King_Hrothgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I'm not sure whether the lack of Sparrows would make the F-104 useless against the MiG-21. I imagine we could have lots of fun with F-104G vs. MiG-21bis. Different advantages and disadvantages to play with. I don't know whether an F-5 would be the better choice. Maybe. Lots of users worldwide, a nice little dogfighter, Sparrows, better radar, Mavericks, bombs. Also great for the Hormuz map because Iran also has it. But of course availability of data is a huge factor. If someone has data about the F-104 and not enough data about the F-5 the F-104 is obviously the better choice. As a German I am biased of course. We didn't fly the F-5, but we had the Starfighter and it is an awesome plane. I would love to have it, the G version. Earlier F-104 would be a bit disappointing, because I'd like to have a fighter bomber. Would still buy it, but I'd be less enthusiastic. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Hrothgar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The F-5E also can't use AIM-7's, but it is one mean little dogfighter, which the 104 most definitely isn't. The F-5E does get mavericks though, and that's a hell of a bonus. Everyone loves those. Also, data on the F-5E is very easy to come by. I saw an original maintenance manual for it on ebay a week or two ago for $25. The plane was designed from day 1 as export only. It was intended to be a cheap fighter for allies the US didn't fully trust with our best equipment. So there isn't anything sensitive about it. Getting info on it shouldn't be any harder than getting it for a P-51. I bet it would be easier actually, there are a lot more F-5's still flying about and people who flew them previously. Hell, I bet you could dig up some of the original Northrop engineers who designed the thing if you looked hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vedexent Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 The plane was designed from day 1 as export only. It was intended to be a cheap fighter for allies the US didn't fully trust with our best equipment. Like, Canada? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel_108 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Yeah now that you say it, it'd like the G-version too. Pity that it only has AIM-9s though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Oh, I just noticed I wrote Sparrows above. Of course the F-5 doesn't have those. I wanted to write Sidewinders. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emg Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Note the F-16A (1979) did not use AIM-7, yet was the main air defence fighter for many nations, and frontline fighter for many US squadrons. Edited February 5, 2015 by emg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel_108 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It used the AMRAAM though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King_Hrothgar Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Not originally, in fact if this article is to be believed, not until 1991. http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/how-to-win-in-a-dogfight-stories-from-a-pilot-who-flew-1682723379 In any case, the F-5, though built for export to the third world, ended up being a hugely popular fighter among core US allies for its simplicity, low cost and reliability. In all honesty, I think it was a far better fighter overall than the F-4 ever was. But the US doesn't do the whole cost effective thing. It's either outlandishly expensive or GTFO, even if the outlandishly expensive thing is greatly inferior. Edited February 5, 2015 by King_Hrothgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dartuil Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So some F-104 variants are more manoeuvrable. I hope they will do a good one like the S or G or I'm not in. If its something like mig-21 I pass. i7 2600k -- Noctua NH-D14--Asrock Z75 Pro3--ASUS GTX970 Strix --16Go Ripjaws X 1333--Thermaltake Smart M650--CoolerMaster Silencio 652S--AOC E2752VQ-- Sandisk Extreme II 480GB--Saitek X-52 Pro --SAITEK PZ35 Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emg Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) AMRAAM beta version was first used on F-15 in 90/91. F-16A had no BVR missile. (Remarkably!) F-16C had AIM-7. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article10.html Edited February 5, 2015 by emg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiG21bisFishbedL Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 AMRAAM beta version was first used on F-15 in 90/91. F-16A had no BVR missile. (Remarkably!) F-16C had AIM-7. http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article10.html To be precise, Block 1, Block 5, and Block 10 F-16As lacked any sort of weapon capable of BVR performance. The Block 15 upgrades allowed them to utilize AIM-7s. With the MLU, EuroViper Block 15s can use AIM-120s. Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emg Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 (edited) Yep. The point was just to show, the F-104G (and F-5E) are not the only frontline fighters without BVR missiles in a 1980 scenario. Israeli F-16As went into frontline air-to-air combat in 1982 without a BVR missile - this maybe tells us that BVR misiles were not a necessity for small fighters in 80's air combat. Btw MiG-21 with WVR IR-missiles and guns only; still got many victories against F-4 and Mirage: http://www.acig.info/CMS/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=185&Itemid=47 Edited February 6, 2015 by emg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Even today BVR missile shots are rare. In games you KNOW it is an enemy. And if you do a teamkill or kill a civilian you say "Sorry!" and nothing bad happens. In real life you tend to try and be sure. Visual identification before missile launch. So why carry a BVR missile when you don't use it BVR anyway? DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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