Lorenz

[airdoc]

Is it the same system?

 

Chizh, i think that it is the same system as in the pictures of Team Daedalus, yes. The 3 vertical rods have the same structure in both pictures and represent the antenna (in TDs pictures the metal rods are fixed on wooden bars, maybe this is a later modification, but one can see that rod height from the ground and distance match in both pictures ). Maybe some airfields used this small house to put the AS unit inside, but i think most should have used a truck for versatility reasons.

Edited January 27, 2015 by airdoc

[eekz]

After some googling found this. The article seems to be worth a look;

http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/hellschreiber-modes-other-hell.htm

[Chizh]

Chizh, i think that it is the same system as in the pictures of Team Daedalus, yes. The 3 vertical rods have the same structure in both pictures and represent the antenna (in TDs pictures the metal rods are fixed on wooden bars, maybe this is a later modification, but one can see that rod height from the ground and distance match in both pictures ). Maybe some airfields used this small house to put the AS unit inside, but i think most should have used a truck for versatility reasons.

 

Have you any track photos, except one in your post?

[airdoc]

Have you any track photos, except one in your post?

 

These are some more pictures that may be of help (including a new antenna photo) :

 

 

 

The above is a photo of the LFF Lorenz antenna system in Berlin airport before the war (early civilian version, likely modified in the future for use by the Luftwaffe, but you can see that the structure of the 3 rods is identical with AFFA-2). It is taken from the original paper submitted by Ernst Kramar, the creator of the system, in 1933. The paper is written in English and can be found in this link :

http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/hellschreiber-modes-other-hell.htm

 

scroll down toRef. 137: "A new field application for ultra-short waves", Ernst Kramar, Proc. of the IRE, Vol.21, Nr. 11, November 1933, pp. 1591-1531 (the page is secured, if link doesn't work you have to go there and download the pdf yourself)

 

 

For the truck images, I found the following :

 

 

This is a truck that carries the antenna equipment for the Lorenz system. The image is from Werner Thote, pp. 20-25 in "Radiobote", Jg. 2, Heft 9, May-June 2007 , which can be found on the same webpage as the previous link, at ref. 70.

 

The quoted text on the image (google translation from german) says :

 

"mobile ground equipment landing beacons were installed in three trucks for the three radios . They contained in addition to antenna systems and accessories recover the 0.5 kw driving sender EZS -2. The picture on the right shows the side to remove the antenna from the roof of the driving force transmitting truck Kfz. 305/29"

 

original : "die mobile bodenanlagen der schweren Landefunkfeuertrupps waren in drei Lkw fur die drei funkfeuer eingebaut. Sie enthielten neben antennenanlagen und zubehor den 0,5 kw ansteuerungs-sender EZS-2. Das bild rechts zeigt die gleitbahn zum abnehmen der antenne vom dach des ansteuerungs sende kraftwagens kfz. 305/29."

 

So, i think that it is likely that most Luftwaffe airfields used the 3-rod antenna and the AS-system inside a truck (as shown in the AFFA-2 picture in previous post), while the biggest ones, inside Germany may have had the time and resources to house the equipment inside a building (as shown for the Berlin airport). This is a hypothesis, perhaps a german speaking DCS member could read read the documents and make more robust conclusions about this issue.

 

The inside of the Trucks carrying the EZ Markers (inner-outer beacon) should look something like this :

 

 

 

This photo is taken from Luftwaffe manual 4451 (see previous post for link), where the EZS are described in detail.

 

cheers

Edited January 27, 2015 by airdoc

[NineLine]

Very nice finds, I think the truck one would be very cool.

[Chizh]

Track could be if we find good photos of all components in deployed position.

[Chizh]

These are some more pictures that may be of help (including a new antenna photo) :

...

Many thanks!

[NineLine]

Almost....

 

[NineLine]

This site had the Kfz 305/29 listed but no image, this was close but not right. I emailed the site owner for help.

 

http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Homepage_english/Miscellaneous/Kfz-Numbers/Kfz__Numbers/Kfz__305-30/kfz__305-30.html

[airdoc]

Regarding the kfz. 305/29 : 305 is the standard Opel Blitz truck that was widely used by Germans in WW2, with various modifications, according to the task. The /29 mark is designated as : "Aussteuerungskennzeichenkraftwagen" (translation means something like a marker-vehicle). You can may find helpful to model the basic Open Blitz 305 (antenna is missing) from these drawings :

 

 

 

 

 

 

Basic shape is identical to the pictures provided by Sith and myself regarding the EZ marker trucks. Exact dimensions shouldn't be hard to find on this type of track.

Edited January 27, 2015 by airdoc

[rrohde]

Just FYI - the triangle on the cabin's rooftop of the Opel Blitz is only in the "up" position when there's a trailer attached. If no trailer is attached, the triangle is laid down flat. Please don't make that a mistake from the get-go. :)

 

Edit: For research purposes, do a Google image search for "Anhängerdreieck" to see how it looked.

Edited January 27, 2015 by rrohde

[NineLine]

Yeah, the truck shouldnt be hard to make, its just figuring out the antenna assembly deployed might be tricky.

[Sporg]

Pictures found on a swedish page about Lorenz. They are dated 1936.

http://www.justus2.se/flyg/radiofyrar/Lorenz_SBA/Lorenz_SBA.htm

 

They are posted in this order:

1. Antenna setup diagram, 2. Guidance dipoles, 3. Fore- and main signal antenna.

[Sporg]

This site had the Kfz 305/29 listed but no image, this was close but not right. I emailed the site owner for help.

 

http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Homepage_english/Miscellaneous/Kfz-Numbers/Kfz__Numbers/Kfz__305-30/kfz__305-30.html

 

Quote:

"The Voreinflugzeichen- oder Haupteinflugzeichensendekraftwagen - outer marker or main marker transmitter motor vehicle.."

 

From the description this seems to be the vehicle that would be parked respectively 300 m and 3 km from the runway, along its centre line.

[-Slayer-]

Извиняюсь если было, эту систему можно сейчас использовать в симуляторе?

[DedJara]

Спасибо ребята за обсуждение темы.

Несколько раз взглянул на каком форуме нахожусь.

Ну да, на русском.....

[S.E.Bulba]

Книга немецкого радиоинженера Фрица Тренкле (Fritz Trenkle), в годы Второй мировой войны руководившего радиомастерской люфтваффе (вероятно, что-то типа аналога советских САМ, САРМ или ПАРМ, и т.п.).

Fritz Trenkle. Die deutschen Funk-Navigations- und Funk-Führungsverfahren bis 1945: [нем.]. – 1.Aufl. – Stuttgart: Motorbuch Verlag, 1979. – 208 S.: zahlr. Ill., graph. Darst., Kt. – ISBN 3-87943-615-0.

Несмотря на то, что в книге присутствует немецкоязычная профессиональная терминология, она написана в научно-популярном стиле и повествует об этапах развития и основных технических принципах бортового радиооборудования и наземных радионавигационных систем, систем посадки, боевого управления авиацией и управления воздушным движением. Имеется много фото, схем и рисунков… ИМХО, очень интересная и полезная литература по данной тематике.

[Feuerrad]

Нюансы работы авиационной радионавигации от Lorenz.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Feuerrad

[Feuerrad]