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First Person Control of Infantry


Devil 505

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I know it has been brought up in the past, and I probably already know the answer, however I figured its time to rekindle the thought and commence the hate train. With edge coming out, do the Devs think there is any possible way to integrate first person combat into the sim in the future?

 

I know 98% of you will tell me to go F-myself and play ARMA3, however I believe ARMA3 is crap. I would love to see a sim that takes as much pride in recreating small arms functions, sounds, and ballistics, and accessories as ED takes into the detail of their aircraft.

 

I have yet to see any more intel on the M1A ED was eluding to a while back. It sounded like they possibly had an armor module in the oven. I would love to see this happen.

 

ED has the potential dominate the sim industry with its growing third party developers and ED's constant requirements for extreme detail and quality. I believe bringing the small arms to the game could provide a growing population to the sim and open new doors to the use of our aircraft. Transport helos, search and rescue for downed pilots, insertion/extraction for SOCOM units ect.....

 

The high fidelity sim DCS has created has opened the door to the possibility of creating the best virtual battlefield we have ever seen. With new maps coming out, especially the middle east, it would be outstanding to see counter insurgency operations using blackhawks/pavehawks to insert special forces behind enemy lines, C-130 modules for HALO drops, CH-47 troop operations, close air support, night operations using PEQ/2's or DBALS ect.

 

The creation of individual weapons or weapon kits with high fidelity operating parts, accessories, optics, accurate ballistics, accurate sounds and accurate ammunition types would flesh out the ground combat. It would bring the need for armor modules and further the combat sim experience. With the WW2 map on the way, it could bring a new level of WW2 sim to the market introducing real armor sims and small arms combat on a large scale map. Introducing these options would only provide ED with more funds to continue the amazing work they are producing.

 

This may be a pipe dream, but I would love to hear what the community thinks about again. And for the love of GOD!!!!! do not talk about ARMA. The new one sucks. I was in the military, and its not an accurate representation of combat. The flying sucks, the weapons have gone all futuristic, and the technology has not progressed with what we have available today. I want to see a high fidelity, accurate sandbox battlefield accurately representing all weapons of war. DCS has the ability to pull this off.


Edited by robert.clark251
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"hate train", "go F myself" ... wtf?

 

I doubt anyone here would be hating. But the thing is, it is highly unrealistic - at least for the forseeable future (dunno, maybe in 10+ years?)

 

And as you said, it had been brought up a few times already, but the facts did not change since then:

- Flightsim map size vs. high(est) detail FPS map

- "High fidelity aircraft sim" does not directly translate to "high fidelity FPS combat sim". There is A LOT of work necessary in DCS to reach a level comparable to ArmA. Damage modelling for instance. Weapon effects. Etc.

 

My opinion: if you think that ArmA III stinks in this regard, we should stop right now thinking about DCS taking over that role ...

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Agreed.

 

And as far as the "hate train" and "go F-myself", maybe a little to aggressive of terms, but I see so many people post suggestions for the sim and they are eaten alive with criticism and useless remarks. I did not mean to insinuate people are foul on the forum, just a little harsh at times.

 

I respect the advice. Much appreciated

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Interesting. I agree with Flagrum, 10 years maybe.

 

I for one would love it, it would be as close to real as you could get and would increase the genre ten fold.

 

Wouldn't get much better than having a full scale battle with aircraft, helos, ships, subs, tanks/trucks and infantry all controlled by humans. Our niche markets would become a huge one by combining air combat sims, tank sims, ship/subs sims and FPS.

 

Then add VR. The divorce rate and obesity rate would skyrocket!

 

Hopeful but not for a while. :thumbup:

 

We do live in interesting times for the video game world. Who knows what things will be like in 10 years! Just look how far we've come since 2000!


Edited by ♠_Acoustic_♠

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I like the idea.

 

The idea is fine but it currently is not practical to achieve.

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I would like the idea if ED was a huge software house like EA or something but ED is so small that the idea that they would even WANT to take on an FPS shooter to be integrated into DCS is remote at best.. ARMAis what it is, and if that isn't what you want, then DCS isn't going to give you what you want for sure. They make excellent flight simulations.. Period. IMHO without expanding the size of the company by an order of magnitude, beating ARMA at it's own game is a pure pipe dream..

 

(Besides, I don't want the aircraft to grind to a halt so that we can have ANOTHER FPS. I play them as well, but they are truly a dime a dozen anymore.. When I want to play a FPS I go play an FPS... )

 

Please leave ED to continue being the greatest flight sim company in the world..

"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

RAMBO

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  • ED Team

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Yes, I would like the option, although I cant imagine them having a very robust FPS game with in DCS right now... things I would like, is the ability of a pilot to have to walk/run to his aircraft, or after bailing out, having to evade capture and/or getting to a pick up zone... things like that would be cool...

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....things I would like, is the ability of a pilot to have to walk/run to his aircraft, or after bailing out, having to evade capture and/or getting to a pick up zone... things like that would be cool...

 

I've wished for that since playing Janes US Navy Fighters in the mid 90s. While not feasible now I wouldn't count it out at all. The future of gaming is integration, not small markets which are separated.

 

Some of the ideas floating around Elite Dangerous are good examples of what will be the norm.

 

You spawn in as an FPS, walk to the briefing rooms, get your mission, walk to your plane, so on. No detail or realism will be lost once the technology is here, which arguably it is but its cost prohibitive for producers and consumers. Give it 5-10 years.


Edited by ♠_Acoustic_♠

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If we could have a pilot (man) object that interacted with the DCS world, I'm sure mission designers would have no trouble integrating it into combat SAR, JTAC insertion, or other missions. A simple matter of triggers. As it is now though, an ejected pilot doesn't even show up (as far as mission planning goes). Eject from plane- game spawns man object where you land for a helo pickup or jtac

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ingame infantry/soldier is already possible by Combined Arms

soldier can walk, run, turn, like hull of a tank

soldier can fire and rotate gun/rpg in elevation/azimuth like turret of a tank

it's depend on the skeleton animations of the soldier model

 

but "ARMA detail" in DCSW is depend on the detail of the map and buildings (multi-storey/rooms/stairs)

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Everyone seems to forget that ED is not in the business to make games... They are in the business to program military grade flight simulators for military use all over the world. Our little piece of things (the public flight sim market) was simply an offshoot of their existing company to take advantage of code pretty much already written anyway..

 

We are lucky they sell us ANYTHING...

 

Once again they aren't going to bet the farm on making an FPS just because some of us want them to..

"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

RAMBO

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If you think Ed will do a better job at infantry then you may have to wait for a very, very long time. Hopefully one day all aspects of war will be in one game, but not anytime soon. Might as well stick to Arma or CoD for that shooting fix.

 

P.S. Ed is in the business to make money.

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Outlawal,

 

I grew up playing every flight sim since the old 51/4 inch floppy drives, before windows, when only DOS was the OS. Back when Megafortress was big and F-19 Stealth Fighter. Eagle Dynamics and DCS world is exactly what I want in a simulator. No one does it better. My intention with the post was to reiterate how amazing it would be to EVENTUALLY integrate a full scale battlefield since the technology is out there.

 

Apologies if I pissed in your cherrios about ARMA. I have played it since the old days of Operation Flashpoint. Maybe I have been a little to harsh on them. It was not my intention to slam them. The sim does not suck. I loved ARMA 2 and especially Operation Arrowhead, however they really burned me when they went with the future look to the aircraft and weapons. I was hoping for a true to life combat diver, HALO/HAHO, real world weapons sim. Just because they fell short in my book does not mean I hate them.

 

And if ED is not in the business to make games (DCS World), they sure do a hell of a job with their spare time and us peasants who are just an offshoot of their time.

 

And you underestimate the small team. Take a look at Elite Dangerous and how much they have accomplished with a small staff, or No Mans Sky with a team of 4 I believe. It does not take a huge company like EA to break major ground and revolutionize a genre of sims.

 

Removed 1.1 violation


Edited by NineLine
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Great idea, but what sort of system would you need to coordinate all that action? The military version of ArmA runs on servers, and a single simulator for the CF-18 requires several banks of computers. Put it all together and I'm not sure the internet could even handle that much traffic.

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We may live long enough to see this happen :)

 

No doubt, that would be more than fantastic.

 

Expect 1TB RAM and a 256-core CPU, SuperSpeed-SSD's and alikes...LoL

 

no way to run that kinda app on any HW on the near horizon at an acceptable level of detail and scale.

 

 

.... hey Eric Schmidt "GOOGLE",,, can I rent some of your farms to run a server ??? that sort of scale

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*Had a long post, it got deleted by the forums so shorter version*

 

-Lack of detail in DCS terrain. Things like small bumps, low walls, infantry stuff. Then you'd need to open up at least a few of the buildings.

-Rehash various features, you'd really want proper infantry transport (in vehicles with interiors).

-I'm not entirely sure what the state of DCS MP is at the moment, but for proper infantry you'd probably want at least a platoon of infantry, plus some armour and CAS. I don't know if the DCS servers would be able to handle that.

-You'd need a hell of a lot of assets. At a minimum vaguely up to date weapons, uniforms and vests for the US and Russia and probably some insurgents.

-As Cali said ED is in the business to make money, I doubt that they'd get enough of a return on their investment if they made this move.

-The crowd you'd probably want is the ARMA crowd, who I suspect would prefer to stick to the game they know with a larger modding community.

 

I just don't see ED producing this. Maybe they'll extend infantry a little bit so players can act as a JTAC, but a proper infantry sim? Seems unlikely.

 

(As an aside if you want me to recommend some mods to bring ARMA III back to the present day send me a PM).

Always remember. I don't have a clue what I'm doing

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Outlawal,

 

I grew up playing every flight sim since the old 51/4 inch floppy drives, before windows, when only DOS was the OS. Back when Megafortress was big and F-19 Stealth Fighter. Eagle Dynamics and DCS world is exactly what I want in a simulator. No one does it better. My intention with the post was to reiterate how amazing it would be to EVENTUALLY integrate a full scale battlefield since the technology is out there.

 

Apologies if I pissed in your cherrios about ARMA. I have played it since the old days of Operation Flashpoint. Maybe I have been a little to harsh on them. It was not my intention to slam them. The sim does not suck. I loved ARMA 2 and especially Operation Arrowhead, however they really burned me when they went with the future look to the aircraft and weapons. I was hoping for a true to life combat diver, HALO/HAHO, real world weapons sim. Just because they fell short in my book does not mean I hate them.

 

And if ED is not in the business to make games (DCS World), they sure do a hell of a job with their spare time and us peasants who are just an offshoot of their time.

 

And you underestimate the small team. Take a look at Elite Dangerous and how much they have accomplished with a small staff, or No Mans Sky with a team of 4 I believe. It does not take a huge company like EA to break major ground and revolutionize a genre of sims.

 

Removed 1.1 violation

 

I was OK with your response until that last line. The sexual innuendo was totally unacceptable and uncalled for. Nothing I said was inflammatory or disrespectful to you or anyone else. I can't say the same about your comments

 

If you reread what I said I agreed that it would be cool. I was simply stating that ARMA in it's current form is WORLDS better than anything ED is going to come up with in the near future and I stated why... Personally I have no affinity for ARMA and seldom play it at all...

 

If you are unable to have a reasonable discussion with adults then please don't post.

And certainly don't ask questions if you don't want to listen to the answer.


Edited by NineLine
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"Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence."

RAMBO

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I think by my humble opinion that DCS future is in RTS where RTS fans can play with simulation fans. Like look wargame series. It was fresh for RTS community. But small and fast paced.

 

Add the RTS to be playable via remote camera instead just map view and it gets new players. Think wargame+DCS but with DCS rules.

 

Or DCS+theater of war.

You command groups or even individuals depending zooming level. Where you finally jump to map view where you lay commands in large scale. Micro manage in individual level.

Would I care about driving a tank? Not much. But would be fun now and then.

 

Would I love to fly? Usually!

 

Jump-in feature to vehicles would be nice.

 

But as individual soldier? No..... Those are games that don't get much play time, requires different level of control and mission times with scales than DCS offer and need.

 

Who fps player wants to play 1h to get from FOB to town at 40km?

 

Add GCI and AWACS operator posts or good SAM site commander functions and many is happy shoot you down. Add tank platoon commander positions and many like to challenge ground forces and conquer land.

 

A individual soldier can't do anything in DCS level.a couple RTS fans in other hand do. Let to build defensive positions, scout areas, plan strategies and play tactics and there would be more players who doesn't fly but servers could be full for pilots to fight with them.

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I wonder if it is doable... Hmmm... Now this entire discussion makes me want to dig in the engine and see how the game spawns your pilot on ejection, and how to apply that on the ground...

 

I know we can walk with our pilot... I've done that before, and I am sure a lot of you have.

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Well MANPADS are controllable in CA and MANPADS are basically infantry with a missile launcher (more of which wouldn't hurt, like Javelin).

 

So it's already well within the realm of possibility. However, ARMA is far more advanced in ground warfare than CA is. This could be the case for a very, very long time and it comes down to what you find acceptable.

 

From the pilot's seat player controlled infantry doesn't need to be super complex. The beauty of CA is that it allows for dynamic and interactive ground forces without hours and hours and hours scripting. When you're actually fighting on the ground though, some of the short comings stick out.

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