ceauke Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Hi guys I'm trying to figure out the progression of planes for the airforce training pack. Is it something like this:? Level 1: Grob tutor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grob_G_115 Level 2: Shorts Tucano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Tucano Level 3: Hawk (veao) / C101 (not by veao) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Hawk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASA_C-101 So where does the pilatus PC21 fit in? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-21 How would you describe the progression? 1. Slow prop plane? (side-by-side seating) 2. Fast prop (stacked seating) 3. My first jet-engine :-) Edited February 2, 2015 by ceauke Links Link to comment
Pman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yeah your not far off Grob would handle basic airmanship, and navigation as well as intro to stalls, spins etc and some basic acro Tucano would be advanced engine management, high performance and basic weapon deployment profiling and low level training Hawk would then be advanced jet training PC21 is a substitute for the Tuc among some airforces, you generally wouldnt train on both Pman Link to comment
ceauke Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Answered Thanks Pman! :thumbup: Looking very much forward to all of them! :pilotfly: Link to comment
PLP Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Well IIRC the swiss AF ditched the hawk when ordering the Pc-21. So I guess both cover pretty much the same role. I think the training then goes: Tutor similar aircraft -> PC-7 (similar to Tucano) -> PC-21 I remember reading that the PC21 almost handles like a subsonic jet, and is intended to cover the training usually done on jet trainers too. But I might be mistaken [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment
ceauke Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Interesting PLP: I found this in google http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/pc_21 UAE uses PC21 + HAWK and then just after the description continues "... The aircraft combines the procurement and operating costs of current-generation turboprop aircraft with a jet training capability." Link to comment
Lynx11 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 PC21 has good avionics but has also the limitation of prop max speeds... this is a limiting factor for fighter pilots that should pass from turboprop to jet speeds. Another "problem" is the reduced turn radius that makes the BFM between PC21 different from what pilots will see on faster jets. In UAE for example I heard that they had/having problems with this issues. Nowadays a really good trainer in advanced fighter training is the T346. Link to comment
ttaylor0024 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The USA's Air Force progression for fighter pilots is as follows: T-6 T-38 Final air frame (F-15, F-16, etc.) It's a misconception that they use small prop planes for training. All the US pilots get if they become student pilots without soloing beforehand is about 14hrs max to solo in order to make sure they have the aptitude to learn quickly. Link to comment
johnv2pt0 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It's a misconception that they use small prop planes for training. All the US pilots get if they become student pilots without soloing beforehand is about 14hrs max to solo in order to make sure they have the aptitude to learn quickly. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but the USAF does indeed have a program using small props for IFT (initial flight training). That gets the student pilot their PPL in either a DA-20C or C-172 type of aircraft before they then start their official pilot training program which you listed above. That is unless this has changed in the past 10 years. One thing to add though as well is at track select (after T-6) if the pilot is going to fly heavy airlift/tankers then the follow on aircraft is the T-1 Jayhawk instead of the T-38. Link to comment
Sabre-TLA Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 This webpage is a good reference for USAF training. 1 MapleFlagMissions - Read Our Blog for Updates Link to comment
ttaylor0024 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what you mean by this. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but the USAF does indeed have a program using small props for IFT (initial flight training). That gets the student pilot their PPL in either a DA-20C or C-172 type of aircraft before they then start their official pilot training program which you listed above. That is unless this has changed in the past 10 years. One thing to add though as well is at track select (after T-6) if the pilot is going to fly heavy airlift/tankers then the follow on aircraft is the T-1 Jayhawk instead of the T-38. Correct. I worked as an instructor for the the Naval Academy's version, which was a program for the Mids to simulate the real thing which is called IFS (Initial or Introductory Flight Screening). Students are only allotted 14 hours to solo in IFS, and once that's complete they go to primary. If the don't complete it, their aviation career in the military is done. That's correct about the T-1. I'm much more familiar with the fighter side for both the Navy and the Air Force. EDIT: Did some research on the AF IFS. Looks like they get 25 hours to do the same thing... Edited February 3, 2015 by ttaylor0024 Link to comment
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