Guest IguanaKing Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Crusty, just curious, how many real helicopters have you flown? :D Airtito, that automated system for countering collective inputs sounds really nice. I haven't had the privilege of flying anything that modern yet, just a few flights in a 206LR and a couple in a 407. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nscode Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I suspect that would be the privilege of choppers with autopilot (that it's one of A/P's functions). Never forget that World War III was not Cold for most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 407? I have also flown with it, a month ago in a test flight after engine installation. Not as PIC of course, in my company I work as leading engineer of Ka-32 and Bell-407, but I have less experience with the 407. It just doesn't fly too much. Manifacture date Feb 2002 and overall airframe flight hours less than 200 till now. It's a very good piece of machinery BTW. Shame that it's leaving the hangar so rarely. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I suspect that would be the privilege of choppers with autopilot (that it's one of A/P's functions). Usualy those devices are separate from the autopilot. In russian helicopters they are called crossconnections automats and are nothing more than mechanical assemblies of rods, struts and springs that connect the collective lever with the T/R pitch change mechanism. In other cases they might be part of the autoflight system, but I'm not so familiar. Like I said, coaxial helicopters don't need them so I havent seen ot serviced such thing :) Oups, I must confess that I'm not sure about the 407, I have to refresh my knowledge about it. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtoes Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 ...I just want to add that if the tail rotor fails in the single main rotor design the result would be a certain crash, even if you disconnect the engine(s) from the main gearbox- i.e. go into autorotation. There won't be anything to balance the torque of the main rotor and the helicopter with jammed tail rotor will start to spin in direction oposite to the rotor's. I cannot speak for all Western rotary winged aircraft, but I can speak for the S-70/H-60 Series of aircraft. The underlined statement above is not 100% true. If tail rotor (T/R) failure occurs above 70 KIAS, the S-70/H-60 aircraft, due to aerodynamic tail pylon fairings, is able to maintain controlled flight and a run on landing. The fairings act as a weathervane during forward flight at and above these speeds. I have seen reports of either the T/R gearbox or Intermediate gearbox seizing in flight with no loss of vehicle or crew. Also have heard accounts of this happening, and the aircraft involved not even knowing about it until advised by chaulk 2 of the flight! I speak of this as I've been a mechanic on these airframes since the 1980's and am currently employed as a Sikorsky Field Service Representative. No flame or harm intended...just clearing the mud. Can the Ka-50 pull a 360 loop? I saw this demonstrated at the Paris Airshow in 1997. One of the most impressive manuveurs you'll ever see with a helicopter. It's just not natural! :D Yes if the main rotor is still driving a gearbox, it will have a torque reaction....I think I allready said that, but not all helicopters do this, if the main rotor has a one way bearing (sprag clutch) there will be to all intents and puposes no torque transmission between rotor and fuselage I think you'd be hard pressed to find a helicopter that used a clutch in this manner in between the Main Rotor Gearbox and the rotor head. Between the engine(s) and transmission? Sure. But below the head? Hmmmm... Airtito, that automated system for countering collective inputs sounds really nice. I haven't had the privilege of flying anything that modern yet, just a few flights in a 206LR and a couple in a 407. On the S-70/H-60 this is accomplished through a mechanical device called, inventively enough, the Mixer. It's a series of bellcranks and levers that "mix" the inputs automatically to decrease pilot workload. For example, it adds engine trq and tail rotor pitch when raising the collective. That's all I got for now. -Chris Alienware P4 3.0 GHz 800 MHz FSB | WinXP Pro SP2 | 2 GB PC3200 | ATI X850 256 MB with XT PE BIOS | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 3 Pro with Vector Expansion | Voice Buddy v3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IguanaKing Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 407? I have also flown with it, a month ago in a test flight after engine installation. Not as PIC of course, in my company I work as leading engineer of Ka-32 and Bell-407, but I have less experience with the 407. It just doesn't fly too much. Manifacture date Feb 2002 and overall airframe flight hours less than 200 till now. It's a very good piece of machinery BTW. Shame that it's leaving the hangar so rarely. Oh, I've never flown as PIC either, I used to have a customer who was teaching me to fly one on our test and certification flights. I've got a little more time in the 206LR that was owned by the same company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 I cannot speak for all Western rotary winged aircraft, but I can speak for the S-70/H-60 Series of aircraft. The underlined statement above is not 100% true. If tail rotor (T/R) failure occurs above 70 KIAS, the S-70/H-60 aircraft, due to aerodynamic tail pylon fairings, is able to maintain controlled flight and a run on landing. The fairings act as a weathervane during forward flight at and above these speeds. I have seen reports of either the T/R gearbox or Intermediate gearbox seizing in flight with no loss of vehicle or crew. Also have heard accounts of this happening, and the aircraft involved not even knowing about it until advised by chaulk 2 of the flight! Hi Chris, Yes, you have a point. Many helicopters have large tail fins and stabilizers which could at high forward speed provide stability like it is an airplane. It's indeed possible to make a safe run-on landing but there's still great risk of disaster because 70knots(125km/h) is very high landing speed for a helicopter. Not to mention that there won't be almost any directional control. It would be more like an emergency landing and I believe the machine would suffer severe damage, but the point is that the crew could survive. No flame or harm intended... No flame taken;) Thanks for pointing this out. Another thing. Coaxial helicopters are the only one that, as far as I know, has airplane rudders as a control surfaces. Plus many of them, like the Ka-27/32 family two tail fins with fixed leading edge slats in order to improve their eficiency. The reason of this is that they have poor yaw stability. Look at the Ka-50- large tail fin with rudder, out of the rotor disc plus another two small fins on the horizontal stabilizer tips. "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Oh, I've never flown as PIC either, I used to have a customer who was teaching me to fly one on our test and certification flights. I've got a little more time in the 206LR that was owned by the same company. I'm proud to present you my birds!:D:D:D "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Legionnaire Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Nice choppers. I believe I've seen the first one, or one very similar, used in helicopter logging operations around the area I live in, out on the west coast of Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Nice choppers. I believe I've seen the first one, or one very similar, used in helicopter logging operations around the area I live in, out on the west coast of Canada. Logging is one of the things the Ka-32 masters. The one you have seen is the Ka-32A11BC(could this BC stands for British Columbia?) variant which is designed intentionaly to meet canadian flight regulations and has canadian certificate. The company I'm working for have a lot of experience with such operations in Malaysia. Now we do only fire supression and construction building. The Ka-32 is the best helicopter for hoist operation. I've flown few times with it and it amazes me how powerful and maneuverable this bird is, desipite it looks kind of fat and rough. And the good news for me is that my boss proposed me to become a Ka-32 flight engineer, which I accepted imidiately. We are preparing 4 machines for fire supression in Turkey this summer and I'll have the chance to do the necessary flight training. YES!:D "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtoes Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 Hi Chris, Yes, you have a point. Many helicopters have large tail fins and stabilizers which could at high forward speed provide stability like it is an airplane. It's indeed possible to make a safe run-on landing but there's still great risk of disaster because 70knots(125km/h) is very high landing speed for a helicopter. Not to mention that there won't be almost any directional control. It would be more like an emergency landing and I believe the machine would suffer severe damage, but the point is that the crew could survive. While 70 knots is fast for a helicopter landing, US Army pilots are trained to perform such a task. Okay, normally they train at speeds a tad lower that 70 KIAS but they know what to do. And as for control, they still have (almost) full control. The tail rotor tends to decrease effectiveness above a certain point. The main rotor will still provide the crew with all the control that they will need. Provided of course that they keep that airspeed up up up! ;) No flame taken;) Thanks for pointing this out. Cheers. But on a different note: I can't freakin' wait for LOBS!!! I don't want it released prematurely, but I sure do want it released soon! :joystick: Regards, Chris Alienware P4 3.0 GHz 800 MHz FSB | WinXP Pro SP2 | 2 GB PC3200 | ATI X850 256 MB with XT PE BIOS | Saitek X52 | TrackIR 3 Pro with Vector Expansion | Voice Buddy v3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RvETito Posted April 20, 2006 Share Posted April 20, 2006 But on a different note: I can't freakin' wait for LOBS!!! I don't want it released prematurely, but I sure do want it released soon! :joystick: Tell me about it... "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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