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Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods


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Ive decided to CHEAT!

 

I just scored a HOTAS Cougar on eBay for a song because the throttle wasn't working. My plan is to strip the innards out of the stick and install them in the Suncom F-15 handle and use the stick with my Warthog base. I'll use the Leo Bodnar board to modify the SFS throttles since there is more room in the base for the board.

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What are inside Warthog (Cougar/F22 PRO, F16 FCLS) is multiplexer chips, you can replicate this easy - if are able do make PCB - with 3x CD4021, pinout there:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2015/03/full-37484-99144-shift_register_thrustmaster_warthog_cougar.jpg

 

So make the F-15 grip compatible with Warthog (Gardena hose connector is suitable as nut) without "canibalize" the F-16 one. :D

 

Related: https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/64234-mjoy-mjoy8-mjoy16-mmjoy/page-64

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A easy way to confirm if the switch are really broken is - if you already don't do this - is take these wires that you solder in parallel with original wires and touch the common* wire for this HAT (TDC), the button position should by ON.

 

The common wire are OK because two of the switch's are working.

 

 

Can you explain this in much more detail so i understand better? What do you mean by the "common wire" and wires I solder in parallel?

 

maybe some photos to help me understand can help too?

 

Ultimately, I want to make the Suncom Joystick just like the real one in terms of functions and switches etc. Like auto acquisition swith on thumb being 3 way, pinky switch for countermeasures being 2 functions and TDC being 4 way plus push in for lock target.

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What are inside Warthog (Cougar/F22 PRO, F16 FCLS) is multiplexer chips, you can replicate this easy - if are able do make PCB - with 3x CD4021, pinout there:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2015/03/full-37484-99144-shift_register_thrustmaster_warthog_cougar.jpg

 

So make the F-15 grip compatible with Warthog (Gardena hose connector is suitable as nut) without "canibalize" the F-16 one. :D

 

Related: https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/64234-mjoy-mjoy8-mjoy16-mmjoy/page-64

 

Ok...I have the innards from an F-22 stick. But those were game port not USB.... How do I make the multiplex board USB compatible?

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Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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Yes, both sticks use the the same kind of multiplexer chips.

 

The data bus between the grips multiplexer chips and main controller board on joystick is serial and has no relation if connection with computer is USB or gameport.

 

When you get the warthog compare the chips in grip with the F22PRO ones.

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Yes, both sticks use the the same kind of multiplexer chips.

 

The data bus between the grips multiplexer chips and main controller board on joystick is serial and has no relation if connection with computer is USB or gameport.

 

When you get the warthog compare the chips in grip with the F22PRO ones.

 

Wait, So you're saying the board in the handle is simply for switch functionality and connectivity to the base and the base handles all of the USB functions?

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Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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Ultimately, I want to make the Suncom Joystick just like the real one in terms of functions and switches etc. Like auto acquisition swith on thumb being 3 way, pinky switch for countermeasures being 2 functions and TDC being 4 way plus push in for lock target.

 

One thing I am running into is the fact the F-15C doesn't have fully functional avionics. This means its not simply a matter as mapping Castle switch UP to the Castle Switch UP function.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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One thing I am running into is the fact the F-15C doesn't have fully functional avionics. This means its not simply a matter as mapping Castle switch UP to the Castle Switch UP function.

 

I have it mapped to TDC up down left and right respectively for castle hat

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I have it mapped to TDC up down left and right respectively for castle hat

 

No...

 

What I meant is if you fly say the A-10C and want to map the DMS UP button to perform the appropriate functions you simply assign the keypress to the DMS UP command. The game sorts out what DMS up does depending on mode, what's SOI etc.

 

There are lots of commands available in F-15C, but none specific to individual controls such as the Castle switch. In the Reality F-15 the Castle switch does many things depending on the situation.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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Yes, both sticks use the the same kind of multiplexer chips.

 

The data bus between the grips multiplexer chips and main controller board on joystick is serial and has no relation if connection with computer is USB or gameport.

 

When you get the warthog compare the chips in grip with the F22PRO ones.

 

Is there any way to connect switches form F22 or Cougar to Leo Bodnar's board? From multiplexer chips to matrix? Is that possible?

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Is there any way to connect switches form F22 or Cougar to Leo Bodnar's board? From multiplexer chips to matrix? Is that possible?

 

In this case just remove the multiplexer chips and solder wires coming from BU0836 direct to HAT and buttons terminal in F-22 grip - put one diode 1N4148 in one of each two terminal in button or HAT, in this way:

 

F22_PRO_TQS_BU0836.jpg

 

These multiplexer chips send serial data for main controller, so only work in compatible boards (like the ones in Thrustmaster, Defender Cobra M5 or (DIY) MMjoy2).


Edited by Sokol1_br
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In this case just remove the multiplexer chips and solder wires coming from BU0836 direct to HAT and buttons terminal in F-22 grip - put one diode 1N4148 in one of each two terminal in button or HAT, in this way:

 

F22_PRO_TQS_BU0836.jpg

 

These multiplexer chips send serial data for main controller, so only work in compatible boards (like the ones in Thrustmaster, Defender Cobra M5 or (DIY) MMjoy2).

 

 

you can also use an arduinio pro micro & mmjoy, to connect the thrustmaster shift registers directly (without rewiring)

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Ok so here is the board from the F-22 stick. How would I connect this to the warthog base? There is a connection at both ends. 4 pin outs at one 5 at the other.

image.thumb.jpg.5e4266fe1f2ad0c137df42c92f2bce6b.jpg

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Primary Computer

ASUS Z390-P, i7-9700K CPU @ 5.0Ghz, 32GB Patriot Viper Steel DDR4 @ 3200Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce 1070 Ti AMP Extreme, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 NVMe drives (1Tb & 500 Gb), Windows 10 Professional, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, Thrustmaster Warthog Stick, Thrustmaster Cougar Throttle, Cougar MFDs x3, Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals and TrackIR 5.

 

-={TAC}=-DCS Server

Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3, i7-3770K CPU @ 3.90GHz, 32GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR3 @ 1600Mhz, ZOTAC GeForce® GTX 970.

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The cap of analog stick is done for be operated with thumb finger.

 

To operate axis with middle finger better the original or a concave one, similar to Warthog throttle one.

 

Or similar the one labeled KY-C in this picture:

 

http://i.imgur.com/OEpWmMq.jpg

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Ok so here is the board from the F-22 stick. How would I connect this to the warthog base? There is a connection at both ends. 4 pin outs at one 5 at the other.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2015/03/full-37484-99144-shift_register_thrustmaster_warthog_cougar.jpg

 

 

think this is the pinout from the warthog (but i'm not sure as i dont have one... looks liek you would wire up the colours to a ps2 connector & plug + Pray...

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Yes that pinout picture is from Warthog, but look at the links to SimHQ that I linked previous, Bluedeath confirm that F22PRO use the same pinout/colors.

 

Has a Youtube video of a guy using a F22PRO grip in Warthog base - and all buttons/HATs working (is in some topic in this forum, but I dont remember what...)

 

Each of these chip register monitor the press for 4 buttons (or one HAT) and send then for the main controller board in serial data.

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took photos and this is what I came up with... Even took photo of the multimeter I have...

 

when fully connected it looks like this, this jumper ribbon connection is what controls the functions on the SFS throttle. You remove the ribbon connection at the jumper and then test manually each function. I have done this by connecting the power and the "up" function manually with jumper wire and the FUSBA shows it works properly on the FUSBA end of the spectrum so the problem must be in wiring or in switches.

 

ribbon.jpg

 

tarjeta-FUSBA.jpg

 

Then to rule out the wiring being bad, I tested by adding new wiring parralel to existing and connecting it directly to the FUSBA up and power jumpers.

 

IMG_0201.jpg

 

IMG_0203.jpg

 

I then solder a new power wire from the FUSBA to the power connection on the board as shown in image above. I also then do the same but for the "TDC UP" function on the FUSBA. Then I connect TDC "up" jumper using new wire to all of the connections for the 4 way switch and test for signal going to computer... One at a time and separately and then the ones that don't work are 2 out of the 4... The 2 that work are down and left but up and down don't work

 

soft.jpg

 

When testing each switch, I look to see if TDC range increase function is detected by computer as being pressed and this is indicated with the button showing up as green when input is given... My results are that it does for the left and right being touched or soldered on wire. Also when touch the diodes of each, left right up and down it shows the functions working. I think problem is the 2 switches.

 

And this is the multimeter I purchased... Have no idea how to use it tho...

 

IMG_0204.jpg

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You are luck that this "trial and error" method don't make a "chip barbecue" on the FUSBA, the smell is "pleasant". :)

 

First, unplug the throttle from computer, and preferable leave the FUSBA unplug (from buttons/HAT's) during the test.

 

Set the Multimeter in continuity mode - see the arrow pointing.

 

TUSBA.jpg

20mb image hosting

 

Press the suspect HAT (TDC) direction, and put the Multimeter probes in the indicate places (red arrow/circle), where the HAT(TDC) switch's are soldered to PCB (you will need a extra pair of hands, ask help for someone), if the switch are OK the Multimeter needle will swing.

 

If not, the switch are defective (probable the internal tactile membrane broken).

 

In this case is need replace the switch, and to do this disassemble the whole thing, look at these black plastic points, are pins melted with heat that secure the PCB on place, you need cut the melted part, or wear with a Dremel (if know how use),caution with PCB trails.

 

When replace the switch, and TEST, to fit the PCB on place, since dont have more the plastic pins, use hot glue...

 

In one CH joystick with fault HAT direction the switch are OK, but the central pin (pole) on the HAT did not make the necessary pressure - due wear - to switch click.

A thin sheet of plastic (from candies packaging) glued with CA over the switch fix without replace the switch.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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